[Abdullah]

@luiscuevasii thanks
my mixer is 2.2 kw. It sucks the shampoo very slowly when the viscosity has increased. It may not be able to suck SLES from pipe. That is what i think. 

Can you send the details of your double diaphagram! 
Does it only need electricity to work or something else too.

[Abdullah]

@Perry how do you compare mineral oil vs coconut oil when there already is 5% petrolatum in the formula? 

This study shows coconut oil is a bit better than mineral oil for xerosis.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/15724344/

[Abdullah]

Graillotion said:

How about IPM then?

I just spent the last week trying to formulate it out of a formula…and the end result was…. I now have double the amount of IPM in the formula.   

@g@Graillotion three ingredients that i thought you guys may recommend was isopropyl Myristate, isopropyl palmitate and coconut oil ????. There prices are also good. 

what benefits did you like about isopropyl Myristate and how do you compare it to isopropyl palmitate and coconut oil?

[Abdullah]

@Graillotion the main criteria is it’s value for money and how much emollience and benefit it provide for skin.
Like Petrolatum and glycerin which are best in what they are supposed to do. not the skin feel. Although a drier skin feel is preferred.

I already use 5% petrolatum and 20% glycerin in this product and am using dimethicone 5cst to adjust the skin feel. I have tested may moisturizers that have glycerin and petrolatum as first 2 ingredients after water and the skin feel is not very pleasant in ether of them so that is not a priority for me too.

what is good about macadamia nut oil? You have mentioned only label name.

What would you change for face hand and body product as emollient?

Here only vegetable oils like sesame oil, mustard oil, flaxseed oil is available. I purchase everything from china and India so no problem in purchasing from these two countries. 

[Abdullah]

@MattTheChemist the main focus is on how much emollience it provide and the value. In feelings the drier the better. Other things are not important. 

[Abdullah]

@jamesmiju that could be the case. That is why it has red color so you know where you have applied and where not. 

[Abdullah]

@MarkBroussard the question is why they say not to? 

[Abdullah]

@Syl that is a good thing. 
I love Amodimethicone. I haven’t noticed another benefit of it but i love touching my hair when it is dry after washing with a Shampoo with Amodimethicone ????????????.

[Abdullah]

I see isopropyl palmitate in combination with glycerin and petrolatum a lot from big companies like Aveeno. What is your thoughts about this? 

[Abdullah]

My hopper is like this

[Abdullah]

@Bill_Toge thanks. That looks like a good idea. 

[Abdullah]

@Graillotion for up to 10kgs batch that is the way but for 50kg and 200 kg I don’t know how to weight it. Do you know any device fot that? 

Also for 50kg and above i use inline homogenizer so some of them  would be inside the pipe, although can fill the pipe and check how much material fits there. 

Another problem is the evaporation rate is different for different sizes. 
For smaller batches the evaporation rate is higher than large batches so I can’t guess it from measuring it. 

[Abdullah]

@Syl me and majority of people here have fine hair too. So my target is people with fine hair.

I have also noticed in my hair that BTMS makes my hair greasy and it feels better unconditioned than conditioned with BTMS. 

About BTAC residue, does it increase in each use if used for long term and cause buildup or it replaces the previous residue with new in each use and doesn’t buildup in long term? 

[Abdullah]

@Perry thanks

[Abdullah]

@PhilGeis hahaha yeah but knowing how you guys are doing it would help me a lot.

I did the experiment on 200g water to find the evaporation rate of water but at 200kg the evaporation rate is far less than 1% at 5 minutes. So this was not helpful ????

[Abdullah]

The batches are 50kg and 200kg. 

To find the evaporation rate of water i did an experiment. I heated 200g water to 60°c. After 5 minutes the temperature dropped to 57°c and 2g water evaporated.

Is this the correct way to evaluate? 

[Abdullah]

@kot both 

Which formula? 

[Abdullah]

@vitalys thanks

[Abdullah]

@Pharma thanks

[Abdullah]

@Pharma does any occlusive and insoluble ingredient enhance the penetration of other ingredients or just petrolatum? 

[Abdullah]

@vitalys what about glycerin? 
Doea it penetrate the skin or not? 
If yes then fast or slow?

[Abdullah]

@PhilGeis thanks 
I cant access the research. Can you please copy paste it’s text here ????

[Abdullah]

Microformulation said:

@ngarayeva001 Let me challenge you with a few other questions that may direct you to your own answer. I am sorry if it becomes pedantic.

Dimethicone 500cst is beginning to approach the more viscous grades and is in general used in skin protectants to create a barrier. I have used it in scar treatment products etc. Why would you create a product with a known barrier and add an active?  Of course, theoretically it would increase the absorption, but why?

Let’s say that you proposed a different active and designed a product with a Dimethicone barrier to increase absorption. Is this something that you should be doing?  You could increase irritation and the increase of absorption minimally. We could go back and forth, but I will say categorically that this is not an area we should explore, that being seeking a substantial skin penetration, without a great deal more technical support and I would wager a lot more letters after our names.

So, playing devil’s advocate. I submit that the dimethicone would likely increase the absorption due to the barrier it produces (much like the technical grade membranes we used in trans dermal patches but in a very crude form) and the increase in contact time due to the persistence of the dimethicone on the skin. Lets say that you decide to capitalize on this effect to increase absorption of an active. Propose to me a Cosmetic product and active where you feel that the increase in absorption is warranted or where it would be safe and responsible. Remember that you pretty quickly will tip to an OTC product if there is any significant absorption and we have ruled this out due to lack of technical support and monitored study protocols.

It is not impossible, but the effect is finite. I will propose one, sunless tanners and the use of DMI to increase the penetration of Dihydroxyacetone (DHA) into the upper levels of the skin. It is the very upper layers of the skin and finite. It is more in order to get a more consistent effect.

Don’t cite Salicylic acid in Acne care, we ruled out OTC.

@microfor@Microformulation does ingredients that create a barrier like dimethicone and petrolatum increase the absorption of other ingredients? 

If yes then why and how?

Isn’t The function of barrier to prevent or reduce the entering of substances?

[Abdullah]

Pharma said:

You mention glycerol and petrolatum… these alongside many other common ingredients can serve as penetration enhancers, are likely to be considered ‘actives’, and penetration depth does matter with these.

Every molecule (active or not) has its own requirements regarding how to enhance penetration. As an example: petroleum jelly will act as penetration enhancer for salicylic acid.

Things also depend on your definition of ‘actives’ and ‘penetration enhancer’. Lecithin and ceramides can be considered actives especially if delivered deep enough into the skin. Therefore, they may profit from penetration enhancers (which won’t be solvents like DMI or PG) or penetration enhancing formulations. The cool thing about lecithin is that it can be formulated as liposomes which transforms this excipient into a penetration enhancer, not just for actives but also for itself (if you get what I mean).

@Pharma how and why petrolatum enhances the penetration of salicylic acid? 

[Abdullah]

@DFX thanks