[Abdullah]

I have used 0.3% EDTA in leave on Products without any side effect. You can try this amount. 0.1% looks small.

Important is the viscosity of product. The lower the better.

[Abdullah]

What gum and preservative are you using and what is the pH?

Dissolve Propanediol, salicylic acid and NaOH in water phase after adding sodium phytate. 

What mixer are you using?

[Abdullah]

Your product may be contaminated with microbes. 

What is the pH?

Non of those ingredients cause this at right level. Maybe if you write the percentage of all ingredients help. 

[Abdullah]

What is the pH?

You need an antifungal preservative too. 

[Abdullah]

Does Sodium Cocoyl Glycinate dissolve in water property and become clear? 

In my experiments you need to heat some water to dissolve powder surfactants. 

Why so much Sodium Cocoyl Glycinate? 

You can not dissolve too much of powder surfactants in water. 
I don’t know about this surfactant but for AOS, there is 39% solution available but you can not dissolve 39% powder AOS in water. 

[Abdullah]

Zahra said:

Abdullah said:

Paprik said:

It is surprising how Zahra “knows” everything,. agrees on everything and has done everything you guys tell her before, but she (I assume it is her) still has things to say and having issues.

If you read all the books, have degree in chemistry, have done countless experiments, know everything about the ingredients,  … what seems to be the issue? I’m re-reading everything and I still do not get your point. 

I don’t mean to be rude, but this is second topic (I think) from her and it looks just ridiculous. Like she is making fun of you guys. 

She thought the information about functions and benefits of an ingredient she finds on internet is all she needs to know. 
I was ike this at first too. 

I think it is better to continue mixing surfactants and some emollients

    It may work better than before.

And I will go according to your opinions.

As Mr. Perry said you are out of the knockout method

And the combination of several substances

I used to test, I used to go for these methods, but because I got tired and had to synthesize another product, it was abandoned.

knockout method is more useful when you have a fully functional formula that you totally like and now you do knockout for a specific purpose for example reducing the cost. 
Example: you have a fully functional conditioner that one of the ingredients is keratin. You do knockout keratin and see how your formula works without it. If there was no difference then you don’t use keratin anymore and reduce your product cost. 

If you don’t have a fully functional formula and you also don’t know what each ingredient is doing in the formula, i would advise as Perry said first make 1 ingredient with water and preservative and see, then add ane more and see and so on instead of adding 20 ingredients and making a bad product, then making 20 knockout formulas and still make bad products and at the end be confused that what was the purpose, benefit and result  of all these experiments. 

Now don’t say i know what each ingredient is doing in my formula ????

[Abdullah]

Paprik said:

It is surprising how Zahra “knows” everything,. agrees on everything and has done everything you guys tell her before, but she (I assume it is her) still has things to say and having issues.

If you read all the books, have degree in chemistry, have done countless experiments, know everything about the ingredients,  … what seems to be the issue? I’m re-reading everything and I still do not get your point. 

I don’t mean to be rude, but this is second topic (I think) from her and it looks just ridiculous. Like she is making fun of you guys. 

She thought the information about functions and benefits of an ingredient she finds on internet is all she needs to know. 
I was ike this at first too. 

[Abdullah]

There is two types of knowing the effect effect of each ingredient. 

1. You read on internet, on product descriptions or hear from someone that this ingredient has these functions and these benefits.

2. You actually experience it or someone who has experienced it tells you and then you know it. 

Your knowledge it from first type and that is mostly not true. 

For example: you  used 2 drops of glycolic acid & 3 drops of glyoxylic acid to adjust pH. In your mind you think you are getting all those benefits of these two ingredients that you have seen on internet. Now make a batch and use only one acid and see if there is any difference. If no difference then you for real know that it had no benefits and was just adjusting pH.
The same for all other ingredients that you used. 

[Abdullah]

PhilGeis said:

Chlorine (hypochlorite) - it’s very reactive with protein.   If uncomplexed, you can rinse it away - otherwise it’s prob complexed with hair protein.

And what it does when complexed with hair protein?

[Abdullah]

What Perry said was if you start with only one ingredient+water+preservative, you know exactly what effect it has in your formula. Then add one another ingredient and you will know what effect this new ingredient has. And so on 

In several experiments you have removed or changed some ingredients but you don’t know what effects did they have and what effect do the remaining ingredients have.
You are still as confused as you were before doing all these. So you learned nothing from those experiments.

I also advise you start from one ingredient with preservative, note the results and then move on. 

[Abdullah]

PhilGeis said:

The Jergen’s preservative system would be effective against the bug- as would 0.5% phenoxy.   The issue is apparently failed manufacturing hygiene against which no preservative system would hold up.  That failure might be as obscure as the use of a contaminated raw material or swab detection of the bug on a product contact surface (with no detect in product) or actual product contamination.

Also consider that a company like Jergens would function at a more demanding spec and testing protocol than many here would apply and would reject and recall based on any isolation without looking for a retest excuse to blow off the finding.

Thanks

[Abdullah]

I don’t have the answer for this but 

How much is a kiss of dimethicone and what viscosity are you using? 

Low viscosity like 5 cst is very effective for reducing soaping and tackiness and increasing spreading and feel.

For example 0.3% 5 cst eliminates the soaping of 0.6% sodium stearoyl lactylate in lotion with 4% oil phase. 

It may be a good replacement for your dimethicone and D5. 

[Abdullah]

Measure your ingredients by weight percentage only. This way you know how much you should add if you change the batch size. Also when write your formula only as percentage. 

Don’t say 2 drop or cc or gram. We cant know what percentage of your formula is this 2 drop or cc. 

Tell us only the percentage so we can know how much you have added and can suggest you increase or decrease it. 

For static charge, you can use cationic guar in shampoo or a cationic surfactant like stearamidopropyl dimethyl amine in conditioner. 

[Abdullah]

PhilGeis said:

Graillotion - that assumption is incorrect.  There is no preservative system that can’t be compromised.   The weak, PC systems like leucidal are much more vulnerable - and those using them are usually less capable of detecting contamination and in some cases more likely to compromise in quality.
 
Jergen’s uses good systems a=but apparently failed in manufacturing hygiene.  It is a surprise as I know that these guys are pretty sound.   But it takes only one compromise, and the kevel of testing they invest may have found contamination that others would have missed.

gergoviae - formerly Enterobacter has been a tough one for creams and lotions.

What percentage of phenoxyethanol combined with an antifungal can kill this bacteria? 

Also does EDTA boost the preservative effectiveness against gergoviae the way it does for Pseudomonas aeruginosa? 

[Abdullah]

For chlorine water can remove it.
For copper EDTA will remove it. 

But if these are in your rinsing water the you may not be able to remove it. 

[Abdullah]

Yes. Petrolatum

[Abdullah]

Sorry that i didn’t understand your question.

[Abdullah]

Sorry but i think you have problem in math too. Specially in understanding percentage. 

Do you know one percent it equal to how many grams? 

[Abdullah]

Zahra said:

Abdullah said:

That is good that the results were somewhat better than before.

What do you want now? 

Hi thanks

In the production process, I do not know how much cationic surfactant should actually be used for, say, 60 grams of sample.

I read that 2.5% of cetermonium chloride should be consumed as much as one person concentrate.

How much is this single concentrate 30 ml?

Yes i didn’t understand your clear point clearly. 

Do you understand what percentage of cationic surfactant you should use but don’t know how to convert it to grams in a 60 grams batch?

Or you don’t understand what percentage of cationic surfactant you should use?
If this is your problem, the usage rage is generally 0.2-2%. 
Start from 1%. If it is more conditioning, reduce it. If it is less then increase it until you find what you like. 

[Abdullah]

Mayday said:

25% fully dissolved at 6m30s with low speed vortex on magnetic stirrer. Most of it was already dissolved by 5m.

Thanks for sharing

[Abdullah]

Karo_lina said:

My client is a woman with too much money and zero knowledge about chemistry. She wants to start a beauty business. As for the synthetic ingredients, she didn’t want to say how she chose those specific ingredients, but it’s very possible she chose the names from the first google link.
 

That is a good thing because in Google you can find anything about anything. 

Just write is glyceryl oleate natural? Then it will show you results that yes it is natural.
If it didn’t show like this, write natural glyceryl oleate or any other ingredient and it will show you only results that says that ingredient is natural. 

[Abdullah]

Where are you from? 

I don’t know if it is because of problem in my English or your English has problem too because i don’t understand a lot of what you say correctly. 

Ask your supplier how much active surfactant does it have.

You may need a non-ionic surfactant too. 

And I don’t know how are you homogenizing a 60ml batch. 

[Abdullah]

Just be careful you don’t hurt yourself with your products or ingredients. 

I know your situation right now. 
I was in your situation when i started thinking about making cosmetic products.

Let’s make a few things clear 

You don’t know anything right now. (With respect)

The products you make will be worse than any product in the market. Accept this fact

If you want to make a good product, study some reputable books in cosmetic or take a reputable course like the course from this website to make learning faster and easier for you. 
Or purchase a good formula from an good chemist with a good price and save yourself a lot of time and money and everything.
There are a lot of good chemist here an most of them would sell you formula.

And last, try and test and try and test until you make something good. That is how we learn and improve. 

I have made about 400 different versions of shampoo that was not as good as what i am currently making. 
I have washed my hairs several times a day, several times to find out the long term effect of it faster. 
Like this my other products. 

Do don’t expect your first product sample to be the best for the next of your life.

[Abdullah]

Zahra said:

Hello, thank you for your good comments

But to make a hair straightener using cationic surfactants, I do not know if a few surfactants are used, it should be a few percent in a total volume of 50 grams.

When I increase them, stickiness is created, when I use them less, it does not give the desired result.

Then don’t use more or less. Use the middle amount

[Abdullah]

Coco feels better than shea. 

How is glyceryl oleate less natural than those ingredients that you are using? 

What is your client? 
Chemist

Shopkeeper
Business person that want to start cosmetic business

Or just one person who wants this product for her own use?
Then you can find a good solution for that accordingly

Also ask your client that what is his definition of natural. This way you know what types of ingredients you can use?