[Abdullah]

Is it 10% SLES paste that equals 7% active surfactant?

Have you made any sample with current batch of raw materials that had enough viscosity?

Have you tried more NACL for increasing viscosity?

[Abdullah]

PhilGeis said:

I’ve no specified number. My experience has been in shampoos and hand wash.

This is also a Shampoo formula. Low surfactant and inexpensive.

[Abdullah]

What is it supposed to do?

[Abdullah]

PhilGeis said:

%

Currently i am using
185ppm formaldehyde as (formalin)

 0.45ppm CMI MI

 0.1%EDTA

 pH 5.1 in cleansing products. 

My question was if the ratio of surfactants is 4/1/1 anionic/amphoteric/non-ionic, if total surfactant is 6%, we need to test for mold too. At what percentage of total surfactant at this ratio we don’t need to bother with mold?

Package is flip top cap. 

[Abdullah]

PhilGeis said:

I’d test that one as prototype.

Got it
Thanks

If this is the ratio, what percentage of total surfactants should be in system so that you would not bother with mold for surfactant products as a general rule? 

[Abdullah]

@PhilGeis is it so only in surfactant products with high amount of anionic surfactant or any surfactant product?

For example when a product has

2% SLS
2% SLES
1% CAPB
1% APG
Total 6% active surfactant with 4% being anionic. 

[Abdullah]

@PhilGeis complete elimination of yeast & mold too in 7 days? 

[Abdullah]

I am testing small amounts of 3 oils ( bitter almond oil, sweet almond oil and unrefined hempseed oil) for oxidation since last year to see what happens at the end.
They are placed in Sunny window, transparent package most of the time. I am sure that they have oxidized a lot because the texture has changed and grainy things has formed specially in sweet almond oil and hempseed oil. 
The only thing that hasn’t changed at all is the smell. Bitter almond and unrefined hempseed oil has strong aroma. 
So i think your problem is not oil oxidation.

After how much time the smell turns bad?
I also think it may be contamination.

Have you tested for contamination after the smell and color change?

If not, one simple test would be to add 0.3% EDTA liquid+ 1% DMDM hydantoin, formalin or CMI MI. If the smell changed it means it was contaminated, high load of these strong preservatives killed the microbes and now it is not contaminated, that is why bad smell has gone. 

[Abdullah]

ketchito said:

@Abdullah If it’s just plain water, it shouldn’t.

Thanks

[Abdullah]

@ketchito so if a Shampoo has cationic guar+Amodimethicone, rinsing more will not reduce the amount of silicone+polymer deposited in hair. Am i correct? 

[Abdullah]

Gordof said:

Hmm well, I guess it’s likely that you can rinse Cationic Products from your hair with water alone due to the fact that they are in general soluble in water. The amount that gets taken off is not completely as we can see in the different tests that show that cationic polymers in shampoo help with combability. but I would guess the longer you Rinse off the more is taken off. 

for Silikons that is different silicons will not be washed off easily with just water, you can try that by putting the silicon on the back of your hand and look how long, it will take until all the silicone is rinsed off. It’s the “big” issue with silicon in hair care Products it can lead to a build-up if used too much. 

Thanks 

So you mean if a Shampoo has cationic guar and Amodimethicone, rinsing more doesn’t mean less silicone will deposit?

[Abdullah]

GeorgeBenson said:

@Abdullah interesting points, for some reason i always assumed SLS and SLES could solubilize just about anything, good to know ampthoterics and non ionics are just as good if not better. Maybe i just choose strange and difficult to solubilize fragrances. I will keep experimenting…

This is for shampoos, body washes and cleansers. Usually just fragrance oils or essential oils at 0.2-0.6%. 

SLES and SLS can remove all types of the soils from skin and hair but amphoteric and non-ionic can’t. That is why a cleanser with only anionic surfactant can clean your hair and skin properly like the ordinary shampoo that has only 4% SLES but if you use any amphoteric or non-ionic, it will not clean properly.

For oil Solubilization, amphoteric and non-ionic surfactants solubilize more oil than anionics and they can be more drying for skin. 

[Abdullah]

Use EGMS. 
EGDS is opaque and EGMS is more pearly.

[Abdullah]

It depends on when the package is made and how it is stored.

I order my packages, after production they store it in plastic bag and i purchase it the next day. At first they are clean because it is made in very high temperature and then it is stored in plastic bag closed so less chance of contamination. 
For my situation PhilGeis said it is not necessary to sanitize the packages. 

If your situation is the same you May not need it too.
If you are using it for yourself or small quantities, filling a few bottles with alcohol and emptying it is not a big problem just to be more confident. 

[Abdullah]

It means your oil phase is more than what your emulsifier can emulsify. 

Try changing emulsifier, increasing emulsifier or reducing oil phase.

[Abdullah]

What is the product?
What surfactants have you tried and what percentage?
Which oil you want to solubilize and what percentage? 

SLES is better solubilizer than SLS

Amphoterics and non-ionic surfactants are better than SLES at Solubilization.

A good cleansing product that has enough surfactants can solubilize fragrance oils easily or maybe you are using too much oil or too little surfactant.

If it can’t solubilize that small amount of fragrance, how can it solubilize and remove load of sebum and oils from your hair? 

[Abdullah]

@ketchito got it.

This part “increases the amount of dilution necessary to get coacervate precipitation.”
Does it mean you will need more water to dilute the shampoo and get coacervate precipitation?

[Abdullah]

drjayseesunish said:

Microformulation said:

https://chemistscorner.com/cosmeticsciencetalk/discussion/137/need-formulating-services-here-are-some-contacts#latest

@Microformulation, thanks a lot. 
One more thing,Is it possible to ask from existing members here? Like If I want to approach you for any solution, Is it ok? If yes, then how to approach you?

You can send him message 

[Abdullah]

DMDM hydantoin and CMI MI is good for cleaning products

[Abdullah]

How does emulsion separate? 

Oil separates on top or water separates in bottom? 

And what is the ph?

[Abdullah]

Dtdang said:

@Pharma, How do you come up to the math? Can you explain more details?

Thank you so much.

Are you serious ????

[Abdullah]

Anca_Formulator said:

Abdullah said:

Troycare FE01 is my favorite

Where do you get yours from? Do you know any resellers? I can’t find it in quantities less than 45 lbs and that is much more than I need. 

I am not currently using it but i will when i finish my caprylhydroxamic acid stock.

[Abdullah]

Perry said:

Freeze Thaw stability testing won’t really tell you that. 
It is an exaggerated test attempting to simulate what might happen to a product during shipping from warehouse to warehouse to store shelf. 
If there is separation during the test that means it will probably happen at room temperature but it might not.

Got it
Thanks

[Abdullah]

Pharma said:

Conditioning is mainly done by the cationics whilst fatty alcohols give the creamy consistancy (the more fatty alcohol, the higher viscosity).

Aim for a whole numbered ratio between 1:1 and 1:6 (at least, that’s what the science behind it dictates -> in cosmetics, always regard theory with caution and prove it right or wrong by trial and error).

Got it
Thanks

[Abdullah]

ketchito said:

@Abdullah Usually, mixing two anionics has no benefit over mixing one of them with a zwitterionic or non ionic. The exception is the mixture of SLES and LABS, where you have a spacer in the SLES molecule (the ethoxylated part), wich makes the LABSA interact differently with it. At the end, it depends on the molecular structure. 

Small alcohols (compared to fatty alcohols) can be pentanol or hexanol.

Thanks