[Abdullah]

I don’t think it is 20x more allantoin,

Without betaine it is 0.5%

With 50% betaine it is 1.4%

[Abdullah]

Do you add anything else before cationic guar?

There is two types of cationic guar.

1. Add it first ingredient in water, mix for 1 minute, ph will increase, reduce the pH to 5 and it will hydrate and viscosity will increase. As citric acid is not very compatible with cationic surfactants I don’t think it is the best option to reduce pH of cationic guar too( it is just my opinion). After i added and mixed cationic guar i add CAPB. It reduces the pH and hydrated the cationic guar too. After that i use citric acid.

2. Some types of cationic guar need to be mixed with water for 15 minutes and it will hydrate without adjusting pH.

Can you share the COA of your cationic guar.

[Abdullah]

Thank a lot.

[Abdullah]

You can start from 1% and adjust it

[Abdullah]

It becomes a big problem when making LGN and calculating moles of fatty alcohol.

There is a bit difference. Almond two time.

[Abdullah]

@Perry Sorry but when i calculated the molecular weight of cetyl and stearyl alcohol from their atomic weight, it was 242.44116 & 270.49432 . Are you sure there is no mistake in your calculation? 
Then some new questions. 

1. Is cetearyl alcohol a new molecule by itself or just a mixture of two other molecules?
2. Why did you sum the molecular weight of cetyl and stearyl to get the molecular weight of cetearyl alcohol? 
3. If in a formula we add 1% ceyl alcohol & 1% stearyl alcohol, would it be the same as 2% cetearyl alcohol 50:50? 
In this lecture the instructor says molecular weight of cetearyl alcohol is 250, and it is the weight of cetearyl alcohol 70:30 if we calculate it from atomic weight. What is your comment on this one? 
https://youtu.be/TYFDRkRclK0

Screenshot_20230208_092435_YouTube.jpg 291 KB Image File - Click to view

Options

• Copy Download Link

[Abdullah]

<div>No it wasn’t from a supplier</div>

http://surfactantschemistry.blogspot.com/2013/07/laundry-detergents-formulation.html?m=1

[Abdullah]

I saw in a book that 40% mono is more favorable in cosmetics but no comments on why.

I haven’t used 90% mono because i have to import it from another country and MOQ 25kg but i like too know the results of this change too.

There is one thing and that is just my assumption that di and thri doesn’t help with LGN formation so in 40% mono, only 40% of it will help LGN formation.

[Abdullah]

Thank for this update.

I am confused with everything i do in forum right now but maybe because it is new.

Here are some of my suggestions that was better previously.

1. An introduction in front of the name of users to know better if he is a regular member, student, professional chemist, professional formulator and etc like before.

2. I made a post but i couldn’t upload a picture in it. Not in actual post, not in comment.

3. When i was adding tags to my post, it wasn’t suggesting previous tags when i was typing like it did before. This may create unnecessary new tags.

4. In “recent discussion” section, it only shows 5 discussions, if for example 8 new discussions has been started and i haven’t checked them, how should i know that?

5. How should i know in general, which discussions i have opened and which i haven’t.

Thanks again

[Abdullah]

Untitled2.png 38 KB Image File - Click to view

Options

• Copy Download Link

[Abdullah]

You need to increase dimethicone and guar

[Abdullah]

Yes

[Abdullah]

It doesn’t have negative effect but doesn’t have positive effect too.

[Abdullah]

Maybe blending these emulsifiers improve skin feel.

SLS on it’s own is the harshest surfactant but i saw somewhere that a blend of SLS and SLES has better after feel than SLES or SLS alone. 

[Abdullah]

You are welcome

[Abdullah]

SunilHiwarkat1965 said:

@Abdullah, Thank you very much for corrections. I should have checked COA of the supplier. Truly a very big mistake. 

Abdullah said:

Molecular weight of cetearyl alcohol 30/70 is 250. 

Below 1:4 ratio the viscosity will be very low. 1:4-1:6 is best for viscosity and stability.

 For each % BTAC 1.86% fatty alcohol gives you 1:3 molar ratio

Do you mean active BTAC ?
Would you pl.don’t mind to explain me  the molar ratio calculations. I shall be very much obliged if you can spare some time.That will clear my basic concepts.
Thanks in advance 

Yes active BTAC surfactant. 

Every one calculate it their own way. 
I do it like this.

Suppose A is emulsifier, B is fatty alcohol.

A÷0.molar weight of A×times of fatty alcohol×0.molar weight of fatty alcohol.
This this my formula 

Now suppose A is 1% active BTAC molar weight  404.15596. B is cetearyl alcohol molar weight 250. 
The ratio you want to be 1:4 4 time the amount of fatty alcohol. It will be calculated like this.

1÷0.40415596×4×0.25= ~2.5 fatty alcohol.

So for each % of BTAC at 1:4 molar ratio you will need ~2.5% fatty alcohol. 

[Abdullah]

Molecular weight of cetearyl alcohol 30/70 is 250. 

Below 1:4 ratio the viscosity will be very low. 1:4-1:6 is best for viscosity and stability.

 For each % BTAC 1.86% fatty alcohol gives you 1:3 molar ratio

[Abdullah]

Guar gum doesn’t need heat but it needs high shear to dissolve

[Abdullah]

Heat it, mix it with high shear mixer and cool it.

[Abdullah]

Why you are not using a polymer like HEC or HPMC for viscosity and stability? 
Like in cream and lotion, it has dramatic effect in conditioner viscosity too.

I get enough viscosity with ≤1% BTAC , 2% fatty alcohol and some polymer. 

[Abdullah]

Or use lauryl glucoside if you have to use that in such high quantity. 
Lauryl has better emulsifying, better viscosity and less foaming than decyl glucoside.

[Abdullah]

11% decyl glucoside can be irritating.

[Abdullah]

ccchem said:

@Abdullah thank you. Yes, this is what the supplier recommended. I am now wondering - if this is indeed due to the presence of iron, will the long-term stability be affected?

I don’t know about that part.

[Abdullah]

Thanks a lot.

Today i made a sample batch with 0.26% cationic guar and it was fantastic even after 10 repeated use. In my previous batch of cationic guar anything above 0.2% was making hair undesirable and heavy.

[Abdullah]

Got it

Thanks a lot