[Abdullah]

@Sponge @Farrukh thanks

[Abdullah]

Thanks @em88 @Gunther 

[Abdullah]

@Tendo what is the problem with lauryl glucoside in Shampoo? 

I planned to purchase some

[Abdullah]

Sodium Dehydroacetate. 

.It is inexpensive 
. It is completely water soluble
. Usage rate is %0.1-0.6
. The mic for Aspergillus niger and Candida albicans is 200ppm or %0.02

[Abdullah]

@Perry that is Hydroxyethylcellulose. I asked about Hydroxypropyl Methylcellulose if it is compatible with %15 APG. I have seen 2 manufacturers one said it is not compatible one said it is compatible. So i thought i may find correct answer here. 

[Abdullah]

@justaerin thanks 

. It is glyceryl stearate alone not the se.
. I will replace GMS with cetearyl alcohol and see if it make any difference.
. Yes sodium phytate increase the pH and i reduced it with citric acid to 5-6 before mixing. 
. I will use %10 BTMS and see what it does. 
. Do we need to add water to oil when the oil phase is very small? 

[Abdullah]

@Perry is Hydroxypropyl Methylcellulose compatible with %15 APG surfactants? 

[Abdullah]

@Gunther yes it is %75 cetearyl alcohol. 

@ngarayeva001 your formula has many emulsifiers. BTMS %10 which is the highest %of use, ceteareth-25, Myristyl Myristate,Quaternium 80. They are all emulsifiers and co emulsifiers.

Can BTMS be used as emulsifier without another emulsifier? 

[Abdullah]

Thanks a lot

[Abdullah]

Of polyquaternium 10 and 7, do both thicken the product? 

Which one thickens the most?

If the same INCI PQ 10 vary significantly, is there any other specification that we should check with supplier or just buy from different suppliers and check which one works better? 

[Abdullah]

I have used Hydroxyethylecellulose but it does not thicken the product. It doesn’t even thicken the water alone. 

Does it have any specific method to thicken like cationic guar that needs the pH to be neutralized?

We purchased from India and sellers there don’t have enough information about how to work with it. 

[Abdullah]

@Belassi what about high shear inline homogenizer with 2800rpm speed for carbomers? 

[Abdullah]

@natzam44 @Perry thanks 
Yes we used SLS at %12 and it was ok but now we use nonionic APGs at %15 still it fells the cleaning power is not good enough. 

How much ASM for APGs or can i find a comparison of cleaning powder for different surfactants? 

[Abdullah]

@shuchi 
%1 citric acid is too high. Reduce the amount. Only %0.3 can drop the pH from 12 to 5 or 6 

[Abdullah]

@Perry @ngarayeva001 
Thanks a lot

[Abdullah]

Thank you all 
@Agate yes that is one reason but people here assume anything that ends with sulfate the same. Any other suggestion? 
What about coco glucoside instead of decyl glucoside? Does it have the same effect?

@Belassi i used CAPB but no benefit, even less foam and cleaning power.
GMS, yes glyceryl mono stearate, i added it assuming it will reduce the dryness but it only reduced the foam.
Benzyl alcohol and dehydro acetic acid(geogard 221) preservative mix.
I only add glycerin to dissolve xanthan gum in it before adding it to water.

@ozgirl that would be a good point.
What thickeners do you recommend?
I have tried working with guar gum, cationic guar gum and Hydroxyethylcellulose but they didn’t thicken the water alone, may be they work different than xanthan gum and i don’t know. 
I have cetearyl alcohol too but haven’t tried it in shampoo.

@Gunther any alternative to silicone?
A book mentioned that cationics reduce the wet combability of hair for APGs as in the photo. 
Does sodium phytate have any effect to be reduced?

Would adding glyceryl oleate, panthenol or protein reduce dryness?
Do these have any effect on foam?

[Abdullah]

Thanks @Perry

[Abdullah]

@Belassi, @Perry thanks. 
Is the surfactant the only problem or there is anything else too? 

What is the problem with this surfactant? Is it harsh, iterating, not able to clean well or something else? 

Will changing the quantity do any benefit? 

We have 1 ton of it in stock, we purchased it thinking it is the mildest surfactant according to comparations in Internet and powerfull enough to be used as primary surfactant. 

[Abdullah]

Thank you all from your informative comments. 

Can i use Piroctone Olamine as only preservative in Shampoo with %15 active surfactant decyl glucoside? 
In attached photo you can see it has broad spectrum activity and MIC is %0.05 or less. 
At what percentage can i use it as only preservative for Shampoo?

[Abdullah]

Glyceryl caprylate, Ethylhexylglycerin, Piroctone Olamine, Caprylyl Glycol.
In surfactant system we have %15 active decyl glucoside and in emulsions SSL and GMS emulsifier. 
I want to be able to add these in water face pre emulsion. 

[Abdullah]

Thank you both. 
I am convinced not to go for hyaluronic acid.
Do you have any suggestion which one of these three humectants to use?

Sodium Lactate

Sodium PCA

Glycerine

[Abdullah]

Cst4Ms4Tmps4 said:

OMG! Tough one!

I say DMDM Hydantoin. But of course EWG says it is deadly. My only preservative is DMDM Hydantoin. I am too frightened to even try other eco, green, safe, organic, natural ones. I am waiting for my good self and others who use my DMDM Hydantoin-laden moisturiser die painfully!  >

pH between 4 and 5…This one is easy. You probably can use a mixture of Sodium Benzoate, Potassium Sorbate, Sodium Gluconate (or Glucono delta Lactone or Gluconic Acid). Add in Salicylic Acid if you feel adventurous.

Very natural. Very board spectrum. Very approved.

Erm…Sodium Benzoate and Potassium Sorbate as natural and as edible and as ubiquitous as they are, they have their own warnings and countless users’ complaints.

Even Glycerin/Glycerol whatever one believes, thinks, heard, seen ‘safe’ there is always warnings and complaints.

There is always somebody allergic to something. Likewise, there is always someone (politically correct crazy) sensitive about every single bloody dayum thang.

Sodium metal per se is lethal. Chlorine gas is deadly. Together they become Sodium Chloride, table salt, very safe to be touched and eaten. BUT….but it can be very bad if used concentrated. Glycerin is like that too. So does this mean EWG should also put table salt and Glycerin in the danger zone? I won’t be surprised if they already did!

Oh, Glycerin is also used as an anti-freeze! We’re gonna die! Table salt can be used as anti-freeze as well! Both of them are commonly used to reduce or totally eliminate crystallisation of sugar (in baking) and lower down freezing point. Hence, anti-freeze is born! We’re certainly gonna die!

Thanks dear. 
At what percentage should we use each of these preservatives and total preservative? 
In our lotion and cream with cetearyl glucoside (a nonionic surfactant) as main emulsifier the pH is 5-6. Would this be broad for it too? 
We have purchased 25kg caprylhydroxamic acid because of its low usage rate and high pH range thinking it is broad spectrum because Inolex company stated it in Propanediol as broad spectrum but it was weak for bacteria. So any advice for an antibacterial to use with it would be appreciated. 
We also try to use one preservative system with high pH range to be able to use it in all our products in pH range 4-7

[Abdullah]

Thanks ngarayeva001
Any suggestion on preservative then? 

[Abdullah]

Thanks MarkBroussard
pH is between 4-5. 
Caprylhydroxamic acid is for fungi, what anti bacterial to use with it to make it broad spectrum? 

[Abdullah]

Thanks ngarayeva001. Any preservative which is in ecocert standard or ewg rated 1 or 2?