[Abdullah]

As ngarayeva001 said Hydroxysultaine is the mildest of these but if if you use them alone they will be irritating. Maybe because they cant clean enough

[Abdullah]

@Perry thanks
@ngarayeva001 do you know any website or research that has compared the TEWL reduction of different oils? 

I had seen one long ago but now can’t find it. 

[Abdullah]

@Perry
It isn’t the same as what? Mineral oil or expensive sunflower oils?

[Abdullah]

@Climatechangeanxiety 
I once mixed some xanthan gum in water and after 1 day i was seeing fungi growing in it. So definitely one reason is you don’t have preservative.

I haven’t worked with SCI so cant say anything about it.

Dont use coconut oil in Shampoo. Use it after shampooing. 

If you have sensitive skin and have cationic guar available try this formula.

SLES    %9 AS

Sultain  %3 AS

Cationic guar %0.2
Broad spectrum preservative (must)
Water

[Abdullah]

Thota said:

@Pharma
I am the one who struggles with preservatives, spent number of hours to solve my problem. 
I own a small brand, presently Use PE 9010.
around 1-2% struggle with reactions to PE 9010
I also hear people reacting to ehtylhexyl glycerin.

I dont like sorbic or benzoic acid due to flushing or reaction they can cause in low pH.

CHA I tried in the form of spectrastat, it creates warm feeling on skin.

Dermosoft 1388, havent tried it. But heard that it causes similar reaction to sorbic and benzoic. I am keeping my fingers crossed and really wish it doesn’t cause issues. 

Phenylproponol combinations are fine but I dont like its smell.
Phenethyl alcohol, like its smell but havent tried it. I have figure out combinations with pentylene glycol.

Hoping one day my preservative problem will be solved like magic so that I can formulate without worrying about preservatives. 

I primarily make water based products, hence more chances of irritation. 
Also important note that most of the preservatives are fine with emulsions or creams.

At what percentage have you used spectrastat that caused warming? 
I have used CHA %0.1 with no problem

[Abdullah]

1. Are these percentages that you are writing active surfactants or actual surfactant that has water?
If active surfactant then %25 is too high.
If actual surfactant then less than %5 is too little and cant clean you.

2. As ozgirl said what is your preservative?

3. Why are you showering 2x/day with Shampoo?

4. If you want your Shampoo to be able to clean you use anionic surfactant around %10 AS.

Try this one 
SLES    %10 AS

Hydroxysultaine   %1 AS

Preservative 
Water

[Abdullah]

Thank you all. 
@PhilGeis @Pharma @Paprik 

By the way. Is %2 tetrasodium EDTA enough for this purpose? 

If we use sodium citrate instead of EDTA, what percentage of citrate functions equal to %2 EDTA? As citrate is 1/5 the price.

Can we use sodium citrate in pH 11-12?

[Abdullah]

Add some glycerin

[Abdullah]

Pharma said:

Paprik said:

….or you would be cleaning surfaces with bacteria, mold and yeast “infused” product. That would be lovely, aye?  

It’s called EM (effective microorganisms) and they are THE hype in eco-friendly cleaning and sell for way more $$ than traditional cleaning products no matter their effectiveness! I’d recommend something based on lactic acid bacteria (LAB is another great sales pitch) .

I didn’t get this lactic acid bacteria thing. Can you do some more explanation please

[Abdullah]

@Paprik 
You mean at pH 5 or 6 it needs preservative and at pH 11 or 12 it doesn’t?

As this product will not be in contact with human skin i want it to be as inexpensive as possible. 

[Abdullah]

@EngineerAMANAUEL 
It may be contaminated with microbes. Is your preservative strong enough?
What was in the unwashed tank? 

[Abdullah]

@Perry 

Hello

I can’t open the links from google search after this update to site. Please check that. 

[Abdullah]

No it doesn’t apply to cationic guar

[Abdullah]

@Pharma 
How to add glyceryl caprylate to function as preservative in cold process emulsion? 
Temperature less than or around 40°c

[Abdullah]

@Pharma 
That is cool

[Abdullah]

. Increase the phenoxyethanol to %1
. Reduce the sodium benzoate to <0.5

For viscosity 
Remove glycerin
Reduce the fragrance 
Increase the betaine

And as belassi said, increase the total amount of active surfactant to around %10

[Abdullah]

EVchem said:

Something specifically on silicones would be nice, or other “problematic” ingredients like sulfates, parabens. Have people argue for the benefits vs consequences of using them.

I agree.
Something specifically on silicones would be nice.

[Abdullah]

@Pharma thanks 
This information was very helpful 

[Abdullah]

@Pharma so what is the best way to add it to function completely as preservative? 
As it is not water soluble to be added to water phase before emulsion is made.

[Abdullah]

@chemicalmatt 
As you suggested i tried HEC, HPMC and guar gum. At different quantities from %0.1 up to %0.5, alone and blended with each other but they were not stable. Creaming happens after some days. 

Any other suggestions

Here is the formula 

Olive oil %6
Petrolatum %4
Glycerin %3
Essential oil %0.4
Ethyl Lauroyl Arginate HCl %0.2
Glyceryl Caprylate %1
Polyglyceryl 4 Laurate %1-3
Glyceryl oleate %1-3
Required HLB 7.26

[Abdullah]

@Pharma thanks 
If i use glyceryl caprylate as co-emulsifier with Polyglyceryl-4 Laurate, would that decrease its effectiveness as preservative or not? 

[Abdullah]

What is the percentage of each ingredient

[Abdullah]

@PhilGeis thanks a lot

[Abdullah]

@”Dr Catherine Pratt” 
I have separated some of this batch and it doesn’t produce any color and any change. The rest of the batch in this tank also doesn’t produce any color change. The only part that produces red color is these two fittings which are made of iron as shown in picture and i know these parts produce iron oxide very fast. 
My concern isn’t about color, whatever color it is, it is fine for me. My concern is about contamination or being harmful to consumers.

I have used sweet orange essential oil %0.25

[Abdullah]

thank you both @PhilGeis @”Dr Catherine Pratt”
If i transfer this batch to another plastic tank and it didn’t produce any more red color, can i be sure that it is not a preservative issue and that color was just iron oxide being produced from that iron part of tank that i have circled? I wknow that parts produce iron oxide easily in a few hours.

Of course i will change that part soon.