Home Cosmetic Science Talk Formulating Why L’Oréal Paris has removed CAPB from all of their shampoos?

  • Why L’Oréal Paris has removed CAPB from all of their shampoos?

    Posted by Abdullah on August 17, 2021 at 3:50 am

    I checked L’Oréal Paris shampoos today and surprisingly most of their new shampoos don’t have CAPB or another amphoteric surfactant even in those with SLS. Other companies also list CAPB very low in there list. 

    Anyone has any openion why?
    one of their shampoos
    AQUA / WATER / EAU
    SODIUM LAURETH SULFATE
    SODIUM LAURYL SULFATE
    COCAMIDE MEA
    GLYCOL DISTEARATE
    SODIUM CHLORIDE
    DIMETHICONE
    PARFUM / FRAGRANCE
    PPG-5-CETETH-20
    SODIUM BENZOATE
    SALICYLIC ACID
    GUAR HYDROXYPROPYLTRIMONIUM CHLORIDE
    CARBOMER
    ARGININE
    GLUTAMIC ACID
    LINALOOL
    BENZYL SALICYLATE
    BENZYL ALCOHOL
    SERINE
    HYDROXYPROPYLTRIMONIUM HYDROLYZED WHEAT PROTEIN
    LIMONENE
    AMYL CINNAMAL
    COUMARIN
    CITRONELLOL
    2-OLEAMIDO-1,3-OCTADECANEDIOL
    ALPHA-ISOMETHYL IONONE
    FUMARIC ACID
    PHENOXYETHANOL
    SODIUM HYDROXIDE
    CITRIC ACID
    Abdullah replied 2 years, 9 months ago 6 Members · 19 Replies
  • 19 Replies
  • zetein

    Member
    August 17, 2021 at 5:26 am

    I found that L’Oréal, the whole company, around the world, uses Coco-Betaine instead of Cocamidopropyl Betaine in shampoo and face wash. Not sure why, could be they are manufacturing their own amphoteric surfactant.

    The only pro I can think of for Coco-Betaine is that it eliminates dimethylaminopropylamine, which is considered a sensitizer and part of the reason why CAPB gets a bad reputation.
    But this seems irrelevant to your thread since Coco-Betaine wasn’t used either.
    Regarding your question, I remember it was answered once and it was down to the called “structured surfactant system”, something I don’t comprehend as a civilian and would call for an Explain Like I’m Five from the real chemists.
    It was barely mentioned in this talkboard and I got a blank search result for the word “spherulite”, could possibly due to that everyone hates oil in shampoo here and structured surfactant system stands out for their oil holding/delivering ability.
  • Abdullah

    Member
    August 17, 2021 at 10:41 am

    @zetein yeah in the past they used coco betaine but in some new formulas there wasn’t any amphoteric.

    Maybe i am wrong but as i know SLS and SLES doesn’t make structured system. And this doesn’t have any other surfactant. 

  • ketchito

    Member
    August 17, 2021 at 11:50 am

    Since they have Salicylic acid and Sodium benzoate, that shampoo might have a fairly low pH. Low pH plus highly anionic surfactants (like SLS and SLES) makes CAPB a no-go, since CAPB behaves as a cationic surfactant at low pH (aprox. below 5), and it might form a precipitate with anionics when added. 

  • Abdullah

    Member
    August 17, 2021 at 12:11 pm

    @ketchito that is interesting. I should try and see that.
    What about other amphoteric surfactants like lauryl Hydroxysultaine? 

  • OldPerry

    Member
    August 17, 2021 at 1:04 pm

    They don’t have CAPB because they don’t need it.  CAPB is added to a formula as a secondary surfactant to boost foam or maybe to alter rheological properties.

    They have SLS, SLES and Cocamide MEA.  So CAPB is not needed as it provides no benefit that you don’t get from Cocamide MEA.

    The formula you listed also has Carbomer which can modify the rheology and help suspend the Dimethicone.

  • em88

    Member
    August 17, 2021 at 2:47 pm

    ketchito said:

    Since they have Salicylic acid and Sodium benzoate, that shampoo might have a fairly low pH. Low pH plus highly anionic surfactants (like SLS and SLES) makes CAPB a no-go, since CAPB behaves as a cationic surfactant at low pH (aprox. below 5), and it might form a precipitate with anionics when added. 

    What? I haven’t had issues with my formulations having both SA and CAPB. 

  • Abdullah

    Member
    August 17, 2021 at 4:32 pm

    @Perry thanks. 
    Obviously it may be mild enough for scalp. So SLES/SLS without CAPB can also make a mild surfactant.
    what would the ratio of SLES/SLS be to make it mild?

  • OldPerry

    Member
    August 17, 2021 at 4:46 pm

    @Abdullah - Mildness is subjective. When I first worked on the VO5 line the product was about 10% SLS and 1% SLES. We used Lauramide DEA but that didn’t have much impact on “mildness.” However, compared to a baby shampoo it certainly wasn’t mild. I think a 50:50 ratio would be fine for most people.

  • Abdullah

    Member
    August 17, 2021 at 5:19 pm

    @Perry thanks 
    Were they using SLS powder or liquid? 
    I use SLS powder and for 10% SLS i need 8% citric acid powder to reduce the pH to around 5. 

  • OldPerry

    Member
    August 17, 2021 at 8:11 pm

    We used 28% active solution of SLS. 
    Also, adjusted the pH using Hydrochloric acid if I recall.

  • Abdullah

    Member
    August 18, 2021 at 2:48 am

    @Perry thanks

  • ketchito

    Member
    August 18, 2021 at 12:15 pm

    @em88 The problem is not having SA with CAPB, the problem is having an anionic surfactant, low pH and CAPB. 

  • Syl

    Member
    August 18, 2021 at 6:58 pm

    I think they removed it because cocamidopropyl betaine was named allergen of the year in 2004 by the American Contact Dermatitis Society.
    https://www.dermatitisacademy.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/CAPB.pdf

  • Abdullah

    Member
    August 19, 2021 at 1:12 am

    @Syl thanks 

  • em88

    Member
    August 19, 2021 at 11:16 am

    ketchito said:

    @em88 The problem is not having SA with CAPB, the problem is having an anionic surfactant, low pH and CAPB. 

    Oh, I somehow missed that while reading your post before. Sorry. That would be correct, but it is something that you have to take into consideration anyway. Adding 2-3% of SA in a shampoo with anionic surfactants may drop the pH about 3-4. At this point, the pH has to be corrected. 

  • ketchito

    Member
    August 20, 2021 at 12:31 pm

    @em88 No worries, I had my share of nightmares about that same issue some time ago. 

  • Abdullah

    Member
    September 20, 2021 at 8:35 am

    Perry said:

    @Abdullah - Mildness is subjective. When I first worked on the VO5 line the product was about 10% SLS and 1% SLES. We used Lauramide DEA but that didn’t have much impact on “mildness.” However, compared to a baby shampoo it certainly wasn’t mild. I think a 50:50 ratio would be fine for most people.

    @p@Perry can i ask why were they using 1% SLES with 10% SLS? 
    I mean what was that 1% SLES adding to 10% SLS formula? 

  • OldPerry

    Member
    September 20, 2021 at 2:02 pm

    @Abdullah -  “what was that 1% SLES adding to 10% SLS formula?

    It helped change the characteristics of the foam - tighter, more stable bubbles.

  • Abdullah

    Member
    September 21, 2021 at 1:44 am

    Thanks Perry

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