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Which is best alternative to increase viscosity for such product?
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@Paprik - we just removed the HPMC. It turns out no one could tell a difference and salt worked fine as a thickener
we added it right in the beginning, right after the water and dye and before the surfactants
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@perry - Thank you! That is actually good to know.
Sorry, one more question. Did you “swell” it also before surfactants or at the end? I read some brochures about Methocel and they recommend to swell it before, so just double checking
[It kinda does not makes sense, as it won’t swell with all available water from the formula, but hey, if they say it, right? 
] Thanks a lot! -
@Paprik let me tell you a trick.
Some HPMC thicken instantly when mixed with cold water and some takes a few hours later. Use the version that thickens after a few hours, add it after everything else and before NACL or you can add some of it to NACL solution too( if you are worried about swelling all available water, although it doesn’t matter in my opinion). Final viscosity will be very low but enough to prevent HPMC from precipitation. You can fill bottles very easily and my even wash the tank very easily because of very low viscosity and product will thicken after a few hours inside the bottles. -
Perry said:Yeah, we used HPMC in our shampoo until we removed it in a cost savings measure. HEC was in our conditioner formula. (VO5)
Can i ask why you were not using HPMC in conditioner when it costs less than HEC and provides much higher viscosity?
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Perry said:@Paprik - we just removed the HPMC. It turns out no one could tell a difference and salt worked fine as a thickener
we added it right in the beginning, right after the water and dye and before the surfactants
Can i ask how much HPMC were you using that no one could notice the difference in foaming?
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@Abdullah thank you mate!
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Fekher said:@Abdullah I found a lot of commercial shampoo a Johnson, Souplesse wich have main ingrédient CAPB then glucoside may be you got your result because the level of use of ingredients
@ketchito I tried your suggestion it is just perfect good transperancy, acceptable viscosity… So it is really very precious input thanks a lot.
Thanks @Perry @Paprik @”DRBOB@VERDIENT.BIZ” for your comments.You can test it yourself. Less than 1% glucoside has no problem with HPMC but higher amount does. As it was from long ago I don’t remember from what amount of APG the problem started.
You can thicken water will HPMC, then add APG to it and see with how much APG it loses it viscosity.
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@Paprik - no we never pre-swelled it.
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Update using : water, CAPB, cocoglucoside, CDEA, PQ 10 I could reach acceptable viscosity but still lower then ordinary shampoo. Just for drying purpose I added 5 % (glycerin/MPG) then it gives better conditioning effect for hair and no drying effect however the bad surprise in such level foam decrease a lot.
So i’am thinking to make tests with different level of (glycerin/MPG) to decrease drying effect and preserve acceptable foam
Any interpretations, comments, suggestions ?@ketchito @Paprik @Abdullah @Perry @ngarayeva001
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Fekher said:Update using : water, CAPB, cocoglucoside, CDEA, PQ 10 I could reach acceptable viscosity but still lower then ordinary shampoo. Just for drying purpose I added 5 % (glycerin/MPG) then it gives better conditioning effect for hair and no drying effect however the bad surprise in such level foam decrease a lot.
So i’am thinking to make tests with different level of (glycerin/MPG) to decrease drying effect and preserve acceptable foam
Any interpretations, comments, suggestions ?@ketchito @Paprik @Abdullah @Perry @ngarayeva001
I don’t think glycerin will remove the type of drying that CAPB and APG is causing.
Maybe that effect is from pq10 -
@Abdullah actually when the formulation contains pq10 without glycerin it was drying however adding glycerin decrease a lot that effect.
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