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What ingredients provide skin conditioning in face & bodywash like polymer & silicone does for hair?
Everyone want good shampoo, face wash, bodywash.
For me, a good shampoo is the one that has silicone & cationic polymer other than having good foam. I am using cationic guar+ Amodimethicone.
Now in a face or bodywash i don’t know what is the equivalent of silicone+ polymer in shampoo.I have made different face & bodywash products with
SLES alone
SLES+ CAPB
SLES+CAPB+APG
SLES+ CAPB+ cationic guar
SLES+CAPB+ glyceryl oleate
SLES+ CAPB+ cationic guar+ glyceryl oleateThe only noticeable different in all these was foam. Other than that, after feel or skin conditioning was the same or i can say no conditioning at allMy question is: which ingredients in face or bodywash gives noticable skin conditioning effect the same way that polymer+ silicone gives to hair?
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27 Replies
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I’m just a student and maybe I’m talking nonsense, but I think that the needs and therefore the conditioning mechanisms are not the same for hair or skin, so there are no exact analogs. I understand that hair conditioning depends more on aspects such as pH, ionic charge (and that is why cationic substances are used) or the closing of the cuticle. In a shampoo I understand that the type of surfactants used also makes a big difference (I don’t have much experience but I have achieved results that I really like using a combination of anionic, non-ionic and amphoteric surfactants). I would also add some refatting agent, and some active ingredient (I personally love the effect of inulin).In the case of skin, I believe that conditioning depends on maintaining and reinforcing the barrier function of the skin so it is important that the mixture of surfactants is effective but gentle (and in lower imputs than in shampoos), and at least, a refatting agent and a moisturizer should be incorporated, or even an very small imput of a lipid. It doesn’t make sense to me to use a cationic ingredient in a face or body wash.I find that anyway it is not a single product that achieves the result, but the proper combination and proportion of all of them. -
@Abdullah You should feel a difference with a Guar HPTC formula…maybe you need to increase the level. Also, you could add some silicone (same principle as in hair).
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MariaGarcia said:I’m just a student and maybe I’m talking nonsense, but I think that the needs and therefore the conditioning mechanisms are not the same for hair or skin, so there are no exact analogs. I understand that hair conditioning depends more on aspects such as pH, ionic charge (and that is why cationic substances are used) or the closing of the cuticle. In a shampoo I understand that the type of surfactants used also makes a big difference (I don’t have much experience but I have achieved results that I really like using a combination of anionic, non-ionic and amphoteric surfactants). I would also add some refatting agent, and some active ingredient (I personally love the effect of inulin).In the case of skin, I believe that conditioning depends on maintaining and reinforcing the barrier function of the skin so it is important that the mixture of surfactants is effective but gentle (and in lower imputs than in shampoos), and at least, a refatting agent and a moisturizer should be incorporated, or even an very small imput of a lipid. It doesn’t make sense to me to use a cationic ingredient in a face or body wash.I find that anyway it is not a single product that achieves the result, but the proper combination and proportion of all of them.
Thanks
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ketchito said:@Abdullah You should feel a difference with a Guar HPTC formula…maybe you need to increase the level. Also, you could add some silicone (same principle as in hair).
I definitely see a difference in foam but I can’t notice any difference on my skin.
What type of effect should i look for in guar Hydroxypropyltrimonium Chloride in skin cleanser?
For hair i am using Amodimethicone.
I have experienced that if i used Amodimethicone too much or in wrong way in shampoo, it irritates the scalp. Is it safe to use Amodimethicone in skin products? -
Are you open to changing your surfactant system?
Also, Polyquat-39 can be an impressive addition in my experience.
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@Abdullah Usually, you don’t use a high quat load in skin products (yes, catonic surfactants are more irritating in leave on products, specially when applied on the skin), but a bit of Guar HPTC won’t hurt (usually, you feel a velvety dry fealing when skin is dry). Also, for skin cleansers I’d prefer a non-charged silicone (like Dimethicone).
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ketchito said:@Abdullah Usually, you don’t use a high quat load in skin products (yes, catonic surfactants are more irritating in leave on products, specially when applied on the skin), but a bit of Guar HPTC won’t hurt (usually, you feel a velvety dry fealing when skin is dry). Also, for skin cleansers I’d prefer a non-charged silicone (like Dimethicone).
Thanks
Any preference about viscosity of dimethicone for skin? -
Cafe33 said:Are you open to changing your surfactant system?
Also, Polyquat-39 can be an impressive addition in my experience.
Yes i am always willing to change and improve.
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I never stop learning on this forum. What is the benefit of adding cationic substances to skin products? I was convinced that they were only used in hair products to combat frizz.
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MariaGarcia said:I never stop learning on this forum. What is the benefit of adding cationic substances to skin products? I was convinced that they were only used in hair products to combat frizz.
Come people likes the way they feel
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Interesting. Thank you, Abdullah.
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@Abdullah, it might be a bit of a challenge using SLES and trying to create a good skin feel. I am by no means an expert but all of my attempt were failures. I switched to a different surfactant system using Sarcosinate, Decyl Glucoside, CAPB with some Lamesoft PO 65 or some PEG 7 Glyceryl Oleate. You will have to thicken it of course. I found Ultrez 20 to work well but it might make the price of your formula too high.
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generally speaking, refatting agents (e.g. PEG-8 olive glycerides) improve the skin-feelusing sodium cocoyl glutamate as a secondary surfactant also gives the product a pleasant after-feelusing Methocel as a thickener also boosts the foam and improves the skin-feel -
@Bill_Toge thanks
Should i use PEG-8 olive glycerides with deposition aid like cationic guar or if used alone can also improve skin feel.
By methocel, do you mean Hydroxypropyl Methylcellulose or something else?
Can you write the inci name please. -
zetein said:
How to download it in English?
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Abdullah said:By methocel, do you mean Hydroxypropyl Methylcellulose or something else?
Can you write the inci name please.a high-viscosity grade of hydroxypropyl methylcellulose
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@Bill_Togewhat percentage of total surfactant should be sodium cocoyl glutamate at least to be able to notice the skin feel?
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You can’t. But you can see the auto-translation scrolling down that page.
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Abdullah said:@Bill_Togewhat percentage of total surfactant should be sodium cocoyl glutamate at least to be able to notice the skin feel?
What percentage of total surfactant should be sodium cocoyl glutamate at least to be able to notice the skin feel?
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@Abdullah I found 2-5% w/w to be effective
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@Abdullah Maybe you can take a look at what ingredients are generally used by other moisturizing face cleansers - for example Fresh Soy Cleanser is quite popular.
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grapefruit22 said:@Abdullah Maybe you can take a look at what ingredients are generally used by other moisturizing face cleansers - for example Fresh Soy Cleanser is quite popular.
Have you used this product?
If yes, what did you like about it?
When i checked the ingredients, it has only coco glucoside for cleansing which can dry the skin, everything else looks to be below 1% and nothing in it looks like a skin conditioner to me.
https://www.sephora.com/product/soy-face-cleanser-P7880
Aqua (Water), Coco-Glucoside, Butylene Glycol, Glycerin, Propanediol, Xanthan Gum, 1,2-Hexanediol, Polyglyceryl-10 Laurate, Centaurea Cyanus Flower Water, Cucumis Sativus (Cucumber) Fruit Extract, Helianthus Annuus (Sunflower) Seed Oil, Borago Officinalis Seed Oil, Hydrolyzed Soy Protein, Rosa Damascena Extract, Rosa Damascena Flower Water, Aloe Barbadensis Leaf Juice, Panax Ginseng Root Extract, Malva Sylvestris (Mallow) Flower Extract, Rosa Damascena Flower Oil, Tocopherol, Caprylic/Capric Triglyceride, Caprylyl Glycol, Hydrolyzed Jojoba Esters, Silica, Citric Acid, Pentylene Glycol, Caramel, Sodium Hydroxide, Sodium Benzoate, Potassium Sorbate.
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