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Using Castile Soap Instead Of A Normal Surfactant?
I’m a new formulator. I am formulating a shampoo. Yes I’m one of those who don’t want to use Sulfates. I’m having a bit of trouble deciding on a Surfactant blend for my shampoo. I was considering Castile Soap. My research as show that things like Coco Betaine which tend to be a commonly used no sulfate can also be very irritating. I know the pH of Castile runs around 9-10 but can be brought down to a 6-7 and is often used in shampoo bars. But can I use Castile Soap in my liquid shampoo formulation in replacement of typical surfactants?
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11 Replies
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No. Absolutely awful idea. No, the pH can NOT be brought down.
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Belassi said:No. Absolutely awful idea. No, the pH can NOT be brought down.
Why is it a bad idea. Just for knowledge sake. Cant say somethings bad without telling them why
And I’m no scientist so I tread lightly to say this, but their are numerous videos of women showing how to bring down the pH of castile soap, Google it. One women uses MCT in particular. -
If you check here, there are countless threads that explain why the pH of soap cannot be brought down. It splits into FFAs and water. Useless.
Seondly there are also many threads that explain why soap is a terrible shampoo. It gets really, really tiresome explaining this over and over. But just for you:
Soap reacts with dissolved salts in the water to produce soap scum that bonds to the hair making it dry, brittle, and tangled. This is precisely the reason why modern shampoo was invented! -
Sadly it’s chemically impossible to bring the soap pH to the hair-friendly range that you mention. It stops being soap and becomes a mess with no surfactant power at all. MCT doesn’t change the pH. But you don’t have to take anyone’s word for it - get some pure liquid castile soap, add some MCT oil, a good helping of citric acid dissolved in water, stir and then “wash” your hair with it…Some people do wash their hair with soap at a pH of 9-10, but most struggle as it will cause a gunky build-up if used in hard water, and even in soft water, results are mainly unimpressive. Dr. Bronner’s say it themselves on their website: “Dr. Bronner’s soaps clean your hair and scalp amazingly well, but they can also leave your hair feeling tangly and matted.”If you want to get into shampoo bars, have a look over here: https://www.swiftcraftymonkey.blog/questions-and-answers-about-shampoo-bars-the-master-list/
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Just as a sidenote: Castile and Marseille soaps from the supermarket are too often not what they claim to be but are modern syndets with a hint of a modified ingredient at the end of the label which could be interpreted as what marketing meant with ‘Castile or Marseille soap’… Believe me, I’ve been in enough French (that’s the folks who converted Castile to Marseille soap) supermarkets.And I concur with the others, it’s chemically impossible to bring Castile soap’s pH down without turning soap into no-longer-soap. -
And the other side of the story. We produce shampoo by saponifying coconut oil, face wash using olive oil, and body wash using a blend of soya, coconut and palm oils. Yes, the pH is high. No, we see no need to reduce the pH.These products sell well, plus we produce OEM/Private Label for a number of brands.But the secret to these products is proper saponification. Many have problems getting it right, and the end product suffers as a result. -
but their are numerous videos of women showing how to bring down the pH of castile soap, Google it
I have no doubt you can find lots of these. But most importantly…
Anyone can write anything (or make videos) about anything on the Internet
If you want to learn a subject, Google & YouTube are terrible places to find out what’s true. Certainly, there is some good stuff out there. I use it for research too. But the vast majority of things that are published is rubbish.
The first thing to check whenever you see something on the Internet is the qualifications of the people making the content. If someone doesn’t have a chemistry degree or years of formulating experience at a reputable company, you should not rely on what they are saying. Even this is not always reliable as there can be financial motivation to get you to believe certain things that aren’t true.
Bottom line…don’t use Google or YouTube as your only / primary source of information.
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Agree @Perry We have entered the “Post Truth Era,” and largely fueled by social media. The borders are blurred between truth and lies, honesty and dishonesty, fiction and nonfiction. And especially in the cosmetics industry. As a scientist, it is frustrating, but I guess one has to face the reality and get used to being told you are wrong by an anonymous social media “guru’…. people don’t identify themselves these days.
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PeaceLoveOrganics said:Belassi said:No. Absolutely awful idea. No, the pH can NOT be brought down.
Why is it a bad idea. Just for knowledge sake. Cant say somethings bad without telling them why
And I’m no scientist so I tread lightly to say this, but their are numerous videos of women showing how to bring down the pH of castile soap, Google it. One women uses MCT in particular.Thank you
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Agate said:Sadly it’s chemically impossible to bring the soap pH to the hair-friendly range that you mention. It stops being soap and becomes a mess with no surfactant power at all. MCT doesn’t change the pH. But you don’t have to take anyone’s word for it - get some pure liquid castile soap, add some MCT oil, a good helping of citric acid dissolved in water, stir and then “wash” your hair with it…Some people do wash their hair with soap at a pH of 9-10, but most struggle as it will cause a gunky build-up if used in hard water, and even in soft water, results are mainly unimpressive. Dr. Bronner’s say it themselves on their website: “Dr. Bronner’s soaps clean your hair and scalp amazingly well, but they can also leave your hair feeling tangly and matted.”If you want to get into shampoo bars, have a look over here: https://www.swiftcraftymonkey.blog/questions-and-answers-about-shampoo-bars-the-master-list/
Thank you. I understand the pH for hair and scalp so I def understand why a Castile Soap is not recommended, but as I said there seems to be many woman claiming to lower the pH, showing their pH meters with levels as love as 7.5. Now what that castile soap becomes at that pH, I’m not so sure…So thank you. I think Ive concluded that a castile soap would NOT be a good replacement
Thats why I asked because I’m still learning. -
Perry said:but their are numerous videos of women showing how to bring down the pH of castile soap, Google it
I have no doubt you can find lots of these. But most importantly…
Anyone can write anything (or make videos) about anything on the Internet
If you want to learn a subject, Google & YouTube are terrible places to find out what’s true. Certainly, there is some good stuff out there. I use it for research too. But the vast majority of things that are published is rubbish.
The first thing to check whenever you see something on the Internet is the qualifications of the people making the content. If someone doesn’t have a chemistry degree or years of formulating experience at a reputable company, you should not rely on what they are saying. Even this is not always reliable as there can be financial motivation to get you to believe certain things that aren’t true.
Bottom line…don’t use Google or YouTube as your only / primary source of information.
perfect reason as to why I came here! haha Thanks so much
I will enjoy learning from everyone.
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