Home Cosmetic Science Talk Formulating Styling Cream Emulsion Separating

  • Styling Cream Emulsion Separating

    Posted by SaraLee on October 26, 2021 at 8:34 pm

    I just made a batch of styling cream today and within a couple hours it is separating.  Is there anything in the formula that is causing emulsion instability or should I just try using more emulsifiers and/or thickeners in the next batch?

    o  
    Water phase:

    § 
    82% water

    § 
    3% Sorbitol

    § 
    1% coco glucoside

    o  
    Oil phase:

    § 
    3% Cetearyl alcohol

    § 
    1% BTMS 25

    § 
    2% glyceryl stearate

    § 
    3% beeswax

    o  
    Add-ins:

    § 
    .5% honeyquat

    § 
    1% natrasil

    § 
    .3% xanthan gum

    o  
    Preservation

    § 
    1% benzyl alcohol

    § 
    .2% edta

    § 
    .3% sodium benzoate

    § 
    .3% gluconolactone

    Abdullah replied 2 years, 11 months ago 7 Members · 17 Replies
  • 17 Replies
  • ariepfadli

    Member
    October 27, 2021 at 2:02 am

    not enough wax

  • ketchito

    Member
    October 27, 2021 at 11:36 am

    @SaraLee Make sure you’re adding both Xanthan gum and EDTA to the water phase. Also, try adding PEG-100 stearate at the same level of your Glyceryl stearate. Also, add Sodium benzoate in the cool down phase (around 50°C).

  • SaraLee

    Member
    October 27, 2021 at 1:39 pm

    ketchito said:

    @SaraLee Make sure you’re adding both Xanthan gum and EDTA to the water phase. Also, try adding PEG-100 stearate at the same level of your Glyceryl stearate. Also, add Sodium benzoate in the cool down phase (around 50°C).

    Very helpful thanks!!

  • Pharma

    Member
    October 27, 2021 at 7:20 pm
    That amount of wax results in solid oil droplets. Depending on the speed of cool-down, the emulsifiers won’t have a chance to organise properly.
    These solid oil particles will have a positive charge which plays well with honeyquat but not so much with xanthan gum. I suspect that these two polymers will ‘clog’ around the oil particles and allow them to flocculate.
    Personally, I would use a non-ionic polymer instead of xanthan.
    Natrasil can go into the oil phase and might help making these less high melting and more flexible.
    As mentioned above, PEG-100 stearate should also help and you might even use it instead of coco glucoside.
  • ozgirl

    Member
    October 27, 2021 at 9:39 pm

    BTMS (cationic) and Xanthan Gum (anionic) are incompatible.

  • Abdullah

    Member
    October 28, 2021 at 9:36 am

    EDTA is also incompatible with cationic surfactants

  • Abdullah

    Member
    October 28, 2021 at 9:38 am

    Pharma said:

    That amount of wax results in solid oil droplets. Depending on the speed of cool-down, the emulsifiers won’t have a chance to organise properly.
    These solid oil particles will have a positive charge which plays well with honeyquat but not so much with xanthan gum. I suspect that these two polymers will ‘clog’ around the oil particles and allow them to flocculate.
    Personally, I would use a non-ionic polymer instead of xanthan.
    Natrasil can go into the oil phase and might help making these less high melting and more flexible.
    As mentioned above, PEG-100 stearate should also help and you might even use it instead of coco glucoside.

    @@Pharma which one is better if an emulsion has solid oil droplets?

    Fast cool down or slow cool down? 

    And cool down to which degree Celsius? 

  • SaraLee

    Member
    October 28, 2021 at 6:50 pm

    Abdullah said:

    EDTA is also incompatible with cationic surfactants

    Oh really? Wow! I thought EDTA was commonly used in cationic conditioners

  • SaraLee

    Member
    October 28, 2021 at 6:52 pm

    Pharma said:

    That amount of wax results in solid oil droplets. Depending on the speed of cool-down, the emulsifiers won’t have a chance to organise properly.
    These solid oil particles will have a positive charge which plays well with honeyquat but not so much with xanthan gum. I suspect that these two polymers will ‘clog’ around the oil particles and allow them to flocculate.
    Personally, I would use a non-ionic polymer instead of xanthan.
    Natrasil can go into the oil phase and might help making these less high melting and more flexible.
    As mentioned above, PEG-100 stearate should also help and you might even use it instead of coco glucoside.

    Ok good to know!  So something like HEC should work then?  I’ll try adding the natrasil in with the oil phase next time too.  Thanks!!

  • Graillotion

    Member
    October 28, 2021 at 6:53 pm

    SaraLee said:

    Abdullah said:

    EDTA is also incompatible with cationic surfactants

    Oh really? Wow! I thought EDTA was commonly used in cationic conditioners

    Use GLDA at half the rate…on cationics.

  • SaraLee

    Member
    October 28, 2021 at 6:58 pm

    SaraLee said:

    Abdullah said:

    EDTA is also incompatible with cationic surfactants

    Oh really? Wow! I thought EDTA was commonly used in cationic conditioners

    Use GLDA at half the rate…on cationics.

    I’d love to get my hands on some, but as a hobbyist I haven’t been able to find a small batch source.  If you know of one I’d be forever in your debt!  How about sodium phytate?

  • Pharma

    Member
    October 28, 2021 at 7:17 pm

    SaraLee said:

    I’d love to get my hands on some, but as a hobbyist I haven’t been able to find a small batch source.  If you know of one I’d be forever in your debt!  How about sodium phytate?

    I’m in the same position ;( .
    Anyway, phytate is worse. Small amounts of EDTA should work even if there’s some incompatibility.
    HEC should work.
    @Abdullah Slow cool down or hold heat for some time (one of the few exceptions where this might pay off for small batches).
    This is not just due to the (co-)emulsifiers within the oil phase which need to get to the interface but also because coco glucoside is a polymeric and therefore a ‘slow’ emulsifier which needs some time to ‘get in place’ and if the oil has already hardened too much it can’t incorporate into the interface.
  • Graillotion

    Member
    October 28, 2021 at 7:31 pm

    Pharma said:

    This is not just due to the (co-)emulsifiers within the oil phase which need to get to the interface but also because coco glucoside is a polymeric and therefore a ‘slow’ emulsifier which needs some time to ‘get in place’ and if the oil has already hardened too much it can’t incorporate into the interface.

    I assume this is also why the glucoside Montanov’s recommend you not ‘rapid cool’ their emulsions?  Same idea?

  • Pharma

    Member
    October 28, 2021 at 7:35 pm

    @Graillotion I suppose that’s the reason why.

  • Graillotion

    Member
    October 28, 2021 at 7:35 pm

    SaraLee said:

    Use GLDA at half the rate…on cationics.

    I’d love to get my hands on some, but as a hobbyist I haven’t been able to find a small batch source.  If you know of one I’d be forever in your debt!  How about sodium phytate?

    Ahh….not sure where you live…but if in the US….you can get it here.  It also took me a long time to realize that MC was using a synonym, instead of the common nomenclature:

    TSGD (Tetrasodium Glutamate Diacetate) 1602 | MakingCosmetics

  • SaraLee

    Member
    October 28, 2021 at 8:31 pm

    SaraLee said:

    Use GLDA at half the rate…on cationics.

    I’d love to get my hands on some, but as a hobbyist I haven’t been able to find a small batch source.  If you know of one I’d be forever in your debt!  How about sodium phytate?

    Ahh….not sure where you live…but if in the US….you can get it here.  It also took me a long time to realize that MC was using a synonym, instead of the common nomenclature:

    TSGD (Tetrasodium Glutamate Diacetate) 1602 | MakingCosmetics

    Oh my gosh!  Thank you!!

  • Abdullah

    Member
    October 29, 2021 at 1:31 am

    Pharma said:

    SaraLee said:

    I’d love to get my hands on some, but as a hobbyist I haven’t been able to find a small batch source.  If you know of one I’d be forever in your debt!  How about sodium phytate?

    I’m in the same position ;( .
    Anyway, phytate is worse. Small amounts of EDTA should work even if there’s some incompatibility.
    HEC should work.
    @Abdullah Slow cool down or hold heat for some time (one of the few exceptions where this might pay off for small batches).
    This is not just due to the (co-)emulsifiers within the oil phase which need to get to the interface but also because coco glucoside is a polymeric and therefore a ‘slow’ emulsifier which needs some time to ‘get in place’ and if the oil has already hardened too much it can’t incorporate into the interface.

    @@Pharma thanks 

    1. Should we keep the temperature the same as it was at start of emulsion for longer or we should cool the batch slowly after emulsion is made to take longer to cool down?

    2. During this longer period of cool down after homogenization, should we use homogenizer for longer for longer, slow agitation for longer or it is ok to be still and not mixing? 

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