Home Cosmetic Science Talk Formulating General Reason a hair relaxer might not take

  • abierose

    Member
    September 8, 2021 at 1:11 am

    DaveStone said:

    According to a study of Keratineses, this Ronozyme ProAct could straighten hair (better in conjunction with sodium thioglycolate).

     This patent also depicts a keratinase from that study
    https://patents.google.com/patent/US8413666B2/en

    I thought ammonium thioglycolate was the chemical used, not sodium thioglycolate…?

  • DaveStone

    Member
    September 8, 2021 at 5:38 am

    Well, yes, I’m aware of that. But the studies linked above have found other uses for it. It would be capable of denaturing hair keratin.

  • Pattsi

    Member
    September 8, 2021 at 7:40 am

    abierose said:

    Would older (30 years ago) home perm kits have any of the aforementioned chemicals and if so, is it possible those chemicals could permanently alter the way ones hair grows? My hair was as straight as straight could be up until I was about 11 years old when a family “friend” permed my hair and since then my hair is wavy…and yes, I remember the smell…yuck! 🀒

    It’ likely to be just genetics and puberty.

  • Microformulation

    Member
    September 8, 2021 at 2:54 pm
    Well, yes, I’m aware of that. But the studies linked above have found
    other uses for it. It would be capable of denaturing hair keratin.

    I assure you, if it were feasible DSM would have already promoted it for its use.

    This is not research.
  • abierose

    Member
    September 8, 2021 at 6:00 pm

    Pattsi said:

    abierose said:

    Would older (30 years ago) home perm kits have any of the aforementioned chemicals and if so, is it possible those chemicals could permanently alter the way ones hair grows? My hair was as straight as straight could be up until I was about 11 years old when a family “friend” permed my hair and since then my hair is wavy…and yes, I remember the smell…yuck! 🀒

    It’ likely to be just genetics and puberty.

    Yes, I did read that puberty may have been responsible for the sudden textural change 😊 And we can’t escape the genes!! 😁

  • Pharma

    Member
    September 10, 2021 at 7:02 pm

    This is not research.

    We don’t know which serine protease is in that product, only that it’s genetically modified… Anyway, some serine proteases, especially keratinases, do digest keratin as has been published in Nature, PLOS ONE, and AJAS. They do not mention hair relaxing but rather hair removal… the difference of which, as we know from common chemical hair treatments, lies in concentration and duration. The step from no hair to different hair is really a short one ;) .
    Fun fact: Subtilisin, a serine protease, is commonly used in laundry detergents to remove protein stains and is a fodder additive for chicken (because of the same effect as Ronozyme: increasing digestible proteins), it also breaks down keratin (which you already know, now that you have read some real publications)… I wonder how long it would take until someone tried laundry detergent as hair relaxer if I posted this on TicToc as new life hack πŸ™‚ .
  • OldPerry

    Member
    September 11, 2021 at 1:04 am

    Relaxers affect the hair fiber, not the follicle. You can’t permanently change the follicle with any topical product that I know of

  • Sawsen_sara4

    Member
    November 13, 2021 at 3:23 am

    @ngarayeva001

    Me too. With glyoxilyc acid the smell is horrible and the color fade to copper 

  • Syl

    Member
    November 13, 2021 at 5:04 am

    My hair was straight my entire life, I permed it when I was a teenager because it was lifeless. Over the last 6 years, it has become wavy, now I even have small curls.
    In my experience, hormonal changes can make your hair curly.

  • DaveStone

    Member
    September 26, 2022 at 3:49 am
    So I’ve tried two relaxer types on my wife’s hair. No-lye and lye. We have tried each two times (on different sections of hair), once following the directions and the other purposely disregarding the guidelines (i.e. shampooing before use and nearly doubling the processing duration). Both times with both products failed to see any results. She also tried using a perm solution aka thioglycolate while I pulled her hair as straight as I could. No go.
    I can’t understand it. Does a white person’s hair have a different chemical structure or something? I would think afro hair would be more resistant than my wife’s.
    Does anybody here know what a person is called who studies hair? Like the type of scientist who devised these products. I need someone who may be able to answer these questions. It’s really bewildering.
    @chemicalmatt Maybe you could shed some light on this…
  • Stanley

    Member
    September 27, 2022 at 4:33 pm

    I am going to be blunt and honest….
    Your wife needs to see a BEAUTICIAN for an analysis for her hair type and what could be done.   

    At this point, either salon that caters to Black or White patrons would be a place to start.  From everything you have stated you are not having luck please see a professional that does hair before your wife goes bald. Double processing hair with different chemicals will only damage the hair.  Yes there are the DIY Caucasian Folks on youtube explaining how easy it is to use a Organic Root Stimulator (ORS) relaxer but there is a technique to its application.  Their product are meant for a population of people that burn easily or the texture of hair is easy to chemically straighten.  Ladies in my family would not use ORS because of this. Application is taught in cosmetology school.  Your application could be suspect the length of time could be suspect-sometimes the stylist will “massage” the hair to make sure it is straightening.  These “tribal knowledge” bits that stylist do.

    As chemists- yes we can explain the science but a beautician actually sees every day people will kinds of hair and issues.  Stop doing this DIY fix  and see a hair professional.

  • DaveStone

    Member
    September 28, 2022 at 3:17 am
  • DaveStone

    Member
    September 28, 2022 at 4:04 am

    Stanley said:

    I am going to be blunt and honest….
    Your wife needs to see a BEAUTICIAN for an analysis for her hair type and what could be done.   

    At this point, either salon that caters to Black or White patrons would be a place to start.  From everything you have stated you are not having luck please see a professional that does hair before your wife goes bald. Double processing hair with different chemicals will only damage the hair.  Yes there are the DIY Caucasian Folks on youtube explaining how easy it is to use a Organic Root Stimulator (ORS) relaxer but there is a technique to its application.  Their product are meant for a population of people that burn easily or the texture of hair is easy to chemically straighten.  Ladies in my family would not use ORS because of this. Application is taught in cosmetology school.  Your application could be suspect the length of time could be suspect-sometimes the stylist will “massage” the hair to make sure it is straightening.  These “tribal knowledge” bits that stylist do.

    As chemists- yes we can explain the science but a beautician actually sees every day people will kinds of hair and issues.  Stop doing this DIY fix  and see a hair professional.

    I don’t think she would go bald as we tried it on different strands of untreated hair, and the stuff never touched the scalp. I also don’t see how application is the issue, because I’ve seen stylists do the exact same things we did…massaging/smoothing etc. In fact, we watched a video where someone had a relaxer done at a salon.
    I honestly believe ORS is ineffective on Caucasian hair. There are no products on the market aimed to straighten a white person’s curly hair. Although there are famous examples where typical relaxers did work…like with Micky Dolenz on the first season of The Monkees tv show. Haha.
    Of course the Japanese straightening thing would work. It’s just an exorbitant procedure. Funny this is, Japanese straightening solutions appear to be no different than a perm solution, except that the former’s a cream and the latter is watery.
  • Stanley

    Member
    September 30, 2022 at 4:25 pm

    I actually remember Micky Dolenz and the Monkees. Lots of actor/actresses were forced to straighten their beautiful curIs.  I am done. Caucasian can be straighten it was mentioned earlier in this thread.  I feel myself wanting to go down a pathway that will fall on deaf ears since maintain your expert status in application of said product but still getting the end result of straight hair.  I am done.

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