Home Cosmetic Science Talk Formulating Powdered Extracts INCI

  • Powdered Extracts INCI

    Posted by Anonymous on February 15, 2020 at 12:57 pm

    Hi, when
    we use the 200x freeze-dried version of Aloe Vera we can reconstitute it with
    water (99.5% water + 0.5% extract) and list it in the INCI as Aloe Vera Juice.

    I was
    wondering if the same applies to other potent extracts as well? When I use an
    extract that has a 50:1 specification at 0.5%, am I supposed to list it in the
    INCI considering its specification as 25% or still 0.5%?

    What if
    first I make a solution with 98% water and 2% extract bringing it’s
    concentration to 100% and then add 25% of it to my formula (the same thing we
    do with Aloe Vera)?

     

    I feel
    like people feel more confident in a product and enticed to buy it when extracts are listed at the
    top (like many South Korean products) instead of bottom even though the actual concentration would be exactly the same. 

    Sorry if
    it’s a little confusing. English isn’t my first language.

     

    Thank you
    very much

    OldPerry replied 4 years, 5 months ago 2 Members · 8 Replies
  • 8 Replies
  • OldPerry

    Member
    February 15, 2020 at 2:41 pm

    Listing aloe like that is not appropriate and is basically lying. But if you have no problem lying, ignore the listing rules and put the ingredients in whatever order you want.

    If you want to do the right thing, list ingredients based on their % activity. If you use 0.5% aloe in your formula, diluting it with water does not turn it into a new ingredient. Similarly, diluting powdered extracts with water doesn’t turn them into higher concentration ingredients. 

    Don’t use the ingredient list for marketing!

  • Anonymous

    Guest
    February 15, 2020 at 4:16 pm

    Perry said:

    Listing aloe like that is not appropriate and is basically lying. But if you have no problem lying, ignore the listing rules and put the ingredients in whatever order you want.

    If you want to do the right thing, list ingredients based on their % activity. If you use 0.5% aloe in your formula, diluting it with water does not turn it into a new ingredient. Similarly, diluting powdered extracts with water doesn’t turn them into higher concentration ingredients. 

    Don’t use the ingredient list for marketing!

    Hi, thank you for replying. My supplier is the one who told me to list Aloe this way so I thought it was according to INCI standards. Now that I know better, I definitely won’t be doing it. Any ideas on how many top South Korean brands list extracts and peptides at the top of the INCI list? Even the ones imported in the US/EU. 

  • EVchem

    Member
    February 17, 2020 at 1:49 pm

    they are also ‘lying’/mislabeling.  But for aloe 200x I don’t really understand what is wrong with reconstituting and listing it as if you had bought 1x in the first place. If you took 200x and added water to make an equivalent amount of 1x and compared, would there be a noticeable difference? Nothing wrong in my mind with wanting to save on shipping costs by not paying for water when the end product is the same

  • OldPerry

    Member
    February 17, 2020 at 2:41 pm

    The point of ingredient labeling is to let consumers know their exposure to certain ingredients. It is not supposed to be for marketing.

    Aloe juice is mostly water. In my view, it should be listed as such. But when you are specifically starting with a powder and mixing in water, you shouldn’t then be able to claim that you’ve added more aloe than you really have. This problem is solved by having companies list % actives of all their ingredients. 

  • EVchem

    Member
    February 17, 2020 at 4:31 pm

    I can see that point, but aloe (like all extracts) would be difficult to really accurately label then wouldn’t it? If you had aloe 1x and added 10% to the formula, would you list it at 10%? By your logic, I think the answer would be no. But what would we then look to as the deciding factor in how to quantify the amount of extract?

     my main argument is that if you have 10% aloe 1x listed in a certain area on your IL, then putting 0.05% aloe 200x in makes the same concentration, so it should be able to go in the same spot.

  • OldPerry

    Member
    February 17, 2020 at 5:55 pm
    my main argument is that if you have 10% aloe 1x listed in a certain area on your IL, then putting 0.05% aloe 200x in makes the same concentration, so it should be able to go in the same spot.”

    I would agree. But I would say that 10% of 1x Aloe should be listed as both “Water” and “Aloe vera gel”  To figure out the correct position you would first determine the amount of water (98%) and the amount of aloe active (2%).  Then use these numbers for figuring out where it would go on the label. 2% active aloe used at 10% in the formula is 0.2% aloe which falls below the 1% line. 

  • EVchem

    Member
    February 17, 2020 at 8:07 pm

    Sure that makes sense. Stop me at any time- i’m a fan of debating in the gray area that the US cosmetics seems to frequently operate in. 
    If we accept separating extracts into  total water vs active then my next question is- what is that aloe ‘active’? Aren’t there going to be a multitude of molecules from any plant source?  Do you look for a specific compound, or perform loss on drying/HPLC on every similar extract to get the ‘true’ active %?

    I’ve seen supplier breakdowns for extracts that say something like 90% water 10% extract. But isn’t that extract going to contain water as well? How far down the rabbit hole do I go to determine the actual level of a compound in my product?

  • OldPerry

    Member
    February 17, 2020 at 8:19 pm

    I think if you stick with a % actives determination it doesn’t matter. Just figure out what percentage of the raw material is water, and the “extract” part is the solids left behind. This isn’t exact since anything that is volatile that isn’t water will not be counted but you have to figure this is a minor component of any extract.

    Also, aloe vera extract has no definitive chemical composition. The definition is left as something like an extract obtained from an aloe plant. That’s why it’s so hard to formulate natural products consistently. One supplier of aloe may not be equivalent to another supplier of aloe.

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