No salt Shampoo Cocoamidemea solubility issues

Formulating

No salt Shampoo Cocoamidemea solubility issues

Posted by luiscuevasii on July 19, 2015 at 4:41 am

Greetings to all, and thanks for the help.

As title says, im having issues when using “C.MEA” into a no-salt shampoo, im solubilizing it in water/sls/sles solution at 70-75 celcius while agitating with a high shear propeller for about 20 minutes, im getting a creamy shampoo but after a while (about 2hours) the MEA beggins to solidify and turns into very small shiny flakes that ends in the bottom of the shampoo.

Im ussing the CMEA mainly to get a creamy effect, (there arent another peralescent ingredient available on my country)

Formula

Water qs

Sles 15%

Sls 5%

Cocoamido propilbetaine 3%

Cocoamide Mea 4%

Carboxymethylcellulose 1%

polyquartenium 7 1%

glycerin

propyleneglycol

citric acid

sodium benzoate

wahabness54 replied 8 years, 9 months ago 9 Members · 24 Replies
24 Replies

belassi

Member
July 19, 2015 at 3:18 pm

Your results are similar to mine albeit I used sulphate-free surfactants. It will stay in solution at 1% but 2% is iffy and over 2% will precipitate out. The effect is temperature dependent.
Chemist77

Member
July 19, 2015 at 4:06 pm

@Belassi is right, you can’t have CMEA just like that, a proper formula with proper procedure would be needed to have a wonderful creamy product. I use it and it’s a great addition to a formula if done properly.
luiscuevasii

Member
July 20, 2015 at 12:38 am

Thanks belassi and chemist, can you guide me to achive a proper formula/procedure, by the way i just bought Glycol monostearate could it helps to get a creamy product?
belassi

Member
July 20, 2015 at 2:50 pm

You can pearlise with glycol distearate, not monostearate. I suggest using 1% CMEA, absolutely not more than 1.5% if you must, which will improve foaming and thickening. Note that since your shampoo is an anionic formula you will need to be careful of salt thickening because CMEA moves the salt curve to the left. Begin with 1.5% glycol distearate and go to 2% if necessary. You will need to melt the distearate and CMEA together, and dissolve in the surfactant, heated to at least 70 and preferably 75C. In other words this will be a hot process shampoo; do ALL the mixing at 75C and then leave to cool with slow stirring until it reaches say 35C at which point, bottle.

Glycol monostearate? I think that is a thickener… think I have some I bought in error once and it didn’t pearlise. Careful!
OldPerry

Member
July 20, 2015 at 3:59 pm

Glycol Monostearte is a pearling agent. We used it in our SLS / Betaine shampoo formulas at a level of 1% to get the pearlized effect.
belassi

Member
July 21, 2015 at 1:40 am

Really? I must have some mislabelled. Unless glycol = glyceryl. When I tried it, it just thickened to the point of eventually becoming a lumpy clear gel. I can pearl with glyceryl monostearate just fine but not with this other stuff that looks very like it.
luiscuevasii

Member
July 21, 2015 at 5:07 am

I’m buying cutina gms from BASF, it is glycol mono stearate, but in my research I found that glycol is different than glyceryl,
luiscuevasii

Member
July 21, 2015 at 5:37 am

I don’t know if it going to work as Pearling agent.
OldPerry

Member
July 21, 2015 at 3:02 pm

Yes, Glycol Monostearate. It’s the pearling agent in this shampoo.

http://www.drugstore.com/alberto-vo5-moisture-milks-moisturizing-shampoo-strawberries-and-cream/qxp517773?catid=183498

INGREDIENTS: Water (Aqua), Sodium Laureth Sulfate, Sodium Lauryl Sulfate, Sodium Chloride, Cocamidopropyl Betaine, Fragrance, Glycol Stearate, DMDM Hydantoin, Polyquaternium-7, Hydroxypropyl Methylcellulose, Disodium EDTA, Guar Hydroxypropyltrimonium Chloride, Glycerin, Citric Acid, Red 40 (CI 16035), Red 33 (CI 17200), Red 4 (CI 14700), Polysorbate 20, Propylene Glycol, Tocopheryl Acetate, Soymilk, Panthenol, Fragaria Vesca Leaf Extract (Strawberry), Ascorbic Acid, Niacinamide, Biotin
Chemist77

Member
July 22, 2015 at 8:21 am

@Belassi I would be suprised if glyceryl monostearate imparts pearlescence
belassi

Member
July 22, 2015 at 2:41 pm

It works ok, I’ve tried it.
Chemist77

Member
July 22, 2015 at 2:54 pm

Gotta do it myself now!!!!! Can save some cost there I suppose.
chemist1

Member
July 22, 2015 at 6:21 pm

I have been using glyceryl monostearate as well for pearlizing. I was a bit suprised with the result.
Microformulation

Member
July 22, 2015 at 7:51 pm

I have used Glyceryl monostearate for pearlizing effect with ok effect. I have been more impressed with Glycol distearate. I was especially impressed with Quickpearl PK3 from Lubrizol since it can easily be incorporated in a cold mix process quite easily.
Chemist77

Member
July 23, 2015 at 2:01 am

I am using Empipearl XA 200 & Empipearl XA 400 from Huntsman and no issues as such.
David

Member
July 23, 2015 at 11:14 pm

note that usually cocamide propylbetaine contains salt so I wouldn’t call the formulation salt free.
luiscuevasii

Member
July 25, 2015 at 6:45 pm

Thanks to all, i will post commetns when my Glycol monostearate arrives.
luiscuevasii

Member
August 2, 2015 at 10:14 pm

Just Tried Glyceryl stearate, and got a creamy appearance using it from 1.5% - 3.5%, but it dropped the foam generated . Now i m having a second issue.
belassi

Member
August 2, 2015 at 11:21 pm

That’s correct. Pearling agents do decrease foam. You will have to compensate for that, usually by increasing the % surfactant concentration, or possibly adding a foam stabiliser or enhancer …
luiscuevasii

Member
August 4, 2015 at 2:50 pm

Thanks @belassi, can you tell me if amine oxide could work as foam enhancer?
belassi

Member
August 4, 2015 at 4:01 pm

Sorry but I have no experience with that one.
wahabness54

Member
August 6, 2015 at 2:17 pm

Dear perry

I am having problems with my soap, it does not bubble well is there anything am not doing right?.

my ingredient are: Water (Aqua) (12kg), Sodium Laureth Sulfate 1kg, Sodium Chloride 1kg, glycerine 200ml, propylene Glycol 200ml, Pearlizer 100ml, preservative 5ml, Eucalyptus oil 10ml.

process: i dissolve all the sodium chloride in water mix and stir with the Sodium Laureth Sulfate until it dissolved and add the rest of the ingredient. please help me.
Bobzchemist

Member
August 6, 2015 at 2:24 pm

Please start a new discussion for possible answers to your question, wahabness54
wahabness54

Member
August 6, 2015 at 3:25 pm

ok Bobzchemist