Home Cosmetic Science Talk Formulating New Emulsifier or need for thickeners - help!!

  • graillotion

    Member
    June 10, 2021 at 2:20 am

    Here are some additional instructions that go with the emulsifier you chose:

    • In cold processed formulations TEGO® Care LTP should be combined with polymeric stabilizers/thickeners in order to adjust the viscosity and the stability profile of the emulsions. For body lotions combinations of 0.1 – 0.3 % TEGO® Carbomer 141 or
    TEGO® Carbomer 140 with Xanthan Gum proved to be most effective. For the preparation of sprayable emulsions, a combination of TEGO® Carbomer 141 and TEGO® Carbomer 341 ER (Acrylates/C10-30 Alkyl Acrylates Crosspolymer) proved to be most effective.

    • In hot processed creams TEGO® Care LTP is preferably combined with consistency enhancers such as
    TEGIN® M Pellets (Glyceryl Stearate) and TEGO® Alkanol 18 (Stearyl Alcohol). Addition of small amounts of TEGO® Carbomer 134 (0.1 – 0.2 %) results in an improved freeze stability and in improved maintenance of the cream-like consistency at temperatures above 40°C.

  • Cinema

    Member
    June 10, 2021 at 2:28 am

    @Graillotion- thanks for going above and beyond to help me with all this - and giving me so much to read- I love reading up on ingredients. 

  • Cinema

    Member
    June 10, 2021 at 2:29 am

    I love the line- adding a finished product to your product- not a good idea- That’s a keeper! Don’t know what I was thinking!!

  • graillotion

    Member
    June 10, 2021 at 2:36 am

    Cinema said:

    Aloe gel…is only aloe juice that has been thickened.

    Look at the product you were using….Aloe juice was the first ingredient…then thickeners.

    where I can learn how to make my own aloe gel

    In formula…you do not thicken the individual components…you thicken the entire formula….so if you still chose to use aloe juice….it’s viscosity is irrelevant.  You thicken the FINISHED product to the viscosity you desire, with the ingredients you desire….ie… cetyl alcohol, stearic acid, any polymeric…(again super careful here…as most of those hate Aloe)…etc.  (not necessarily what I would choose…just what it sounds like you might have.)

    Bottom line…you thicken the finished product…not the individual ingredients.  Aloe gel…is only pre-thickened aloe juice.

  • graillotion

    Member
    June 10, 2021 at 3:04 am

    Here are some additional instructions that go with the emulsifier you chose:

    • In cold processed formulations TEGO® Care LTP should be combined with polymeric stabilizers/thickeners in order to adjust the viscosity and the stability profile of the emulsions. For body lotions combinations of 0.1 – 0.3 % TEGO® Carbomer 141 or
    TEGO® Carbomer 140 with Xanthan Gum proved to be most effective. For the preparation of sprayable emulsions, a combination of TEGO® Carbomer 141 and TEGO® Carbomer 341 ER (Acrylates/C10-30 Alkyl Acrylates Crosspolymer) proved to be most effective.

    • In hot processed creams TEGO® Care LTP is preferably combined with consistency enhancers such as
    TEGIN® M Pellets (Glyceryl Stearate) and TEGO® Alkanol 18 (Stearyl Alcohol). Addition of small amounts of TEGO® Carbomer 134 (0.1 – 0.2 %) results in an improved freeze stability and in improved maintenance of the cream-like consistency at temperatures above 40°C.

    One more learning opportunity… Here is a line from the re-packer trying to sell you this product:

    • Easy-to-handle liquid emulsifier for making cold emulsions without the need of a co-emulsifier

    The two paragraphs above….are from the mfg…stating very boldly, for anyone wanting to read it…. NOT STABLE ALL BY ITSELF. (my paraphrase)  (LMAO)

    The less you believe in the product descriptions the re-packers use….the better formulator you will become.  Their only goal…is to sell you something (and sometimes…to sell you the fixes…once they have you on the hook).  Search any INCI on any reputable cream/lotion…and you will always see the stabilizers, and co-emulsifiers, no matter what emulsifier they started with.  Even the ‘bullet proof’ one I recommended at the beginning of the thread….we typically will support it.

  • Cinema

    Member
    June 10, 2021 at 9:57 am

    Thanks @Graillotion for the tips above and thanks to all there as well.

  • Cinema

    Member
    June 10, 2021 at 9:48 pm

    @Graillotion
    @Pattsi
    @nagarayeva001
           Had to update you all. Made a fresh batch today after eliminating aloe vera and success- still a little thick but pourable- and has been stable for 4 hours- looks good and will likely remain good. Thank you all for the help!!

  • pattsi

    Member
    June 11, 2021 at 2:45 am

    Cream maker fluid 3.5% - might be bit too high.

    some basic free formulations

    Light O/W Collagen Boosting Lotion Cold Processing

    A
    TEGO® Care LTP  Sorbitan Laurate, Polyglyceryl-4 Laurate, Dilauryl Citrate 1.5
    TEGO® Derm CBS PPG-3 Myristyl Ether; Salicyloyl Phytosphingosine 10.0
    TEGOSOFT® OP Ethylhexyl Palmitate 4.6
    TEGO® Carbomer 140 Carbomer 0.15
    TEGO® Carbomer 141 Carbomer 0.15
    Xanthan Gum 0.1
    B
    Glycerin 3.0
    Water 80.5
    C
    Sodium Hydroxide (10 % in water) qs
    D
    Preservative, Parfum qs

    Cold Processed PEG-Free O/W Lotion (Without Homogenisation)

    A
    TEGO® Care LTP Sorbitan Laurate, Polyglyceryl-4 Laurate, Dilauryl Citrate 1.5
    TEGOSOFT® OP Ethylhexyl Palmitate 9.5
    Mineral Oil (30 mPas) 9.0
    B
    TEGO® Carbomer 140 Carbomer 0.1
    TEGO® Carbomer 141 Carbomer 0.1
    Xanthan Gum 0.1
    TEGOSOFT® OP Ethylhexyl Palmitate 1.2
    C
    Water, demineralized 74.7
    Glycerin 3.0
    E
    Microcare SR 9170 Dipropylene Glycol; Methylparaben;Ethylparaben;Aqua;Methylisothiazolinone 0.8

    Maybe you can try 1.5 + lil natural gum/thickener you like if it’s can emulsify and reach your desired viscosity. 

  • graillotion

    Member
    June 11, 2021 at 5:07 am

    One more note….if you use more emulsifier than you actually need…you will often get a product that ‘soaps’.  It will also be more expensive than it needs to be…and possibly the feel will be diminished.   And the obvious….more thick than you want….(this does not hold true with all emulsifiers…as some do very little thickening.  Increased viscosity and emulsification…are not synonyms.)

  • Cinema

    Member
    June 11, 2021 at 10:30 am

    @Pattsi Thanks and is it ok if I tag you or @Graillotion for any future troubleshooting ?

  • Cinema

    Member
    June 11, 2021 at 10:34 am

    @Graillotion- soaping I encountered early on and figured out how to overcome- not that it can’t happen again. But yeah I have mostly had higher viscosity and am usually trying ways to bring it down.I also had a question- what if there is an ingredient that manufacturers only ship as sample to businesses but I want to try- is there a way to ask around?

  • graillotion

    Member
    June 11, 2021 at 7:39 pm

    Cinema said:

    @Graillotion- soaping I encountered early on and figured out how to overcome- not that it can’t happen again. But yeah I have mostly had higher viscosity and am usually trying ways to bring it down.I also had a question- what if there is an ingredient that manufacturers only ship as sample to businesses but I want to try- is there a way to ask around?

    I assume you are not a business….. Cuz most of us get our samples from ULProspector, but it is virtually impossible to get an account without being an established business.  The industry is fundamentally based on free samples….I have a room full of them.  So other than getting a ULP account…the only other way I know of….is going directly to their website and asking.  I suppose one other way…(and I have never been….cus Covid made an appearance)…would be attend an industry trade show…..guessing lots of samples there.

    HOWEVER… I have long ago realized… If you can not find it at your re-packers….what is the point of getting the sample???  Let’s say you love it….then how are you going to get it???  And you will be left with a feeling of….Oh my product could have been sooooo good, if I just could have included ingredient X.

    Maybe state what product you wanted to sample…and we can tell you what products are similar…that might be available from a re-packer.  There is almost always a dupe or sub out there somewhere.  Also…the re-packers like to re-name things…and some of us might know who has it…under what name.

  • markbroussard

    Member
    June 11, 2021 at 8:32 pm

    All you have is Google the INCI if you are curious about an ingredient sold by a repacker that has given the product their own Repacker Trade Name.  In some cases, the repackers will also slightly change the INCI on their website, but if you also look at the C of A, you can then pretty much figure out who is the original manufacturer of the ingredient.

    I don’t know exactl what good this does you if you are highly unlikely to ever purchas MOQ from the manufacturer.

  • Cinema

    Member
    June 11, 2021 at 9:18 pm

    @Graillotion @MarkBroussard
    Interesting that you guys answer just at the same time. Funny thing, I actually had a chat today while on a manufacturer’s site- the lady was real nice and said that she will check with her manufacturers and see if they would get a sample to an individual. All good, she took my contact info etc and I even offered that I can pay for the sample too……. till she told me the smallest batch of sample they would give out is 25Kgs!!!!   Yikes- I said absolutely no!!! Anyways then I asked as to when do they think their product will be in stores- apparently has been tested and all and on their site since 2018= and she said real soon hopefully!! So , that was fun :D 

  • graillotion

    Member
    June 11, 2021 at 10:37 pm

    I sent you a PM…if you are new to the forum….You have an INBOX tab at the top of the page.

  • Cinema

    Member
    June 12, 2021 at 12:02 am

    thanks

  • pattsi

    Member
    June 12, 2021 at 3:21 am

    sure you can tag me if I can be any of help, but I’m a marketer so my formulating skill is on basic level tho.
    For ingredients supplier(s) you can ask around in here, there’s another option -    

  • Cinema

    Member
    June 12, 2021 at 11:05 am

    @Pattsi thanks  :)

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