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  • Natural alternative

    Posted by Portela on October 8, 2019 at 10:58 pm

    Greetings cosmetic fellows

    I’m developing some natural and vegan cosmetics, then I need natural/vegan alternatives to my formulations. 
    Recently I’m having some problems with pH on my facial cosmetics, most of them has acid pH what harms the eyes area, so I need something like Triethanolamine(what is made from petroleum) to rise pH at least for a basic level. 

    Can you help me?

    EVchem replied 4 years, 3 months ago 11 Members · 21 Replies
  • 21 Replies
  • oldperry

    Member
    October 8, 2019 at 11:53 pm

    You’ll need to give a complete list of ingredients in your formula to get any useful advice.

  • Portela

    Member
    October 9, 2019 at 2:30 am

    Perry said:

    You’ll need to give a complete list of ingredients in your formula to get any useful advice.

    I can’t list it all. I’m looking for something witch has almost the same effect on pH as TEA.  

  • crillz

    Member
    October 9, 2019 at 8:31 am

    Probably wrong on both accounts of natural and ph adjusting but tromethamine rings a bell. 

  • EVchem

    Member
    October 9, 2019 at 10:59 am

    @r3lax3d - don’t worry, nobody wants to steal your ‘natural’ formula. Without knowing what you have that is causing acidity it’s hard to know if the base will have any incompatibilities. 

    So that said, you could try niacinamide. It’s certainly not a strong base so it may not raise pH enough.

  • microformulation

    Member
    October 9, 2019 at 1:37 pm

    Arginine.

  • pharma

    Member
    October 9, 2019 at 6:17 pm

    Arginine.

    Unfortunately, most sold arginine is arginine HCl or other salts tough several suppliers don’t mention that or only on the small prints on the back side of the package. Haven’t found a source for small quantities of free base ;( . Apart from that, arginine is a very good and, for an organic molecule, pretty strong base (actually the strongest one nature has to offer).

  • EVchem

    Member
    October 9, 2019 at 7:15 pm

    @Pharma  it’s hard to find good quality but  several supplement supply stores have it. We’ve bought  from here before, they  provide  a COA at least

  • Herbnerd

    Member
    October 9, 2019 at 7:35 pm

    Pharma said:

    Arginine.

    Unfortunately, most sold arginine is arginine HCl 

    Arginine base is available, but it is produced in smaller quantities and you must specify arginine base from your supplier - otherwise, as you say, they will supply arginine HCl. 

  • pharma

    Member
    October 9, 2019 at 8:06 pm

    Thanks @EVchem !

  • ngarayeva001

    Member
    October 10, 2019 at 6:16 am

    You need ‘natural’ version of TEA, is that your question? Have you considered simple NaOH?

  • EVchem

    Member
    October 22, 2019 at 10:57 am

    @ngarayeva001 I tried this approach with clients who were so far in the ‘natural/no toxins’ rabbit hole (they literally said they would like nothing in the ingredient list over 4 syllables). Got asked “why would you put caustic lye in this product!? It can cause chemical burns” Now I’ve had to prove that even with 14% niacinamide I cannot gel carbomer… feel like i’m taking crazy pills!

  • ngarayeva001

    Member
    October 22, 2019 at 8:45 pm

    14% of Niacinamide? Why so much? I have not seen evidence that it’s getting more effective at higher than 6%. Was it the client’s request?

  • EVchem

    Member
    October 23, 2019 at 11:00 am

    client said they wanted to use niacinamide to adjust the pH of the product with carbomer since other bases were not ‘clean’ enough …. even after saying it wouldn’t work sales told me to make an attempt anyway. guess who was right? not that the client cares, they are at the dangerous level of knowing how to google but only to cherry pick their information

  • pharma

    Member
    October 24, 2019 at 7:31 pm

    Nicotinamide isn’t even a good base… Why not take the aforementioned arginine or free base lysine? Unfortunately, there aren’t that many available and ‘clean’ bases available ;( .

  • EVchem

    Member
    October 25, 2019 at 2:41 pm

    @Pharma Yep I have arginine and that has somewhat worked. Here’s the kicker… the client wants an aloe gel with carbomer and they want the preservative system to be potassium sorbate and sodium benzoate. The sales team refuses to tell the client the formula is never going to work as they hope

  • pharma

    Member
    October 25, 2019 at 7:07 pm
    Eh, wait a minute… I completely missed the point about CARBOMER aka poly(acrylic acid) aka poly(1-carboxyethylene). Ain’t that a real nastiness? I mean a polythingie, synthetic plastic, explosive ethylene gas, and carcinogenic acrylic acid? That’s terrible! Think about the birds and turtles who are all going to die!!!! Arrrghhhh!!!!
    Seriously, you could try chitosan as a base and gelling potentiator ;) .
  • belassi

    Member
    October 25, 2019 at 7:08 pm

    I make a gel product that is 100% aloe vera (using 10x liquid concentrate) and uses 0.8% Ultrez-20. It’s quite stable, no problems at all. I should think sodium benzoate would be adequate as a preservative at pH <=5, with appropriate use of glycerine / other glycols, proper production technique and airless packaging.

  • EVchem

    Member
    October 28, 2019 at 1:04 pm

    @Pharma the chitosan sounded great but my next fear is they want to claim the formula is ‘vegan’ and all the poor shrimp had to give up their exoskeletons. and right?? let’s pick the thing that used to be manufactured with benzene, it’s only 3 syllables so it must be okay.

    @Belassi I’m using the 200x concentrate and ultrez 10. Ultrez 20 would probably work slightly better, but I think the sodium benzoate/ pot sorb and the carbomer will continue to be at odds with each other since they both need different pH ranges to function. 

  • dtdang

    Member
    October 28, 2019 at 1:59 pm

    @r3lax3d, what pH range is not harm around the eye? I am very new in this area.
    i appreciate your answer and thank you so much.

  • markbroussard

    Member
    October 28, 2019 at 3:11 pm

    @EVchem:

    You could possibly make that work using Ultrez-30 which is a low pH activated carbomer that will thicken at pH 4.0.

  • EVchem

    Member
    October 28, 2019 at 5:28 pm

    @MarkBroussard Thank you, I’ll take a look. I  work at a CM so they are always fussy about bringing in new materials but can’t hurt for lab work!

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