Home Cosmetic Science Talk Formulating Max temperature for hydrolyzed proteins?

  • Max temperature for hydrolyzed proteins?

    Posted by kot on May 13, 2020 at 1:39 am

    I am getting mixed info on this - the question is - can we heat proteins , or what is the maximum temperature which proteins can withstand and still be effective? Some info says “add proteins to heated water phase”, and some says “add at cool down, below 40 C”, which one is the correct one, please? Thank you.

    belassi replied 4 years, 2 months ago 4 Members · 11 Replies
  • 11 Replies
  • belassi

    Member
    May 13, 2020 at 2:35 am

    Well, you’re made of protein. Would you prefer to be added to the cool down phase, below 40C? Or the heated water phase?

  • OldPerry

    Member
    May 13, 2020 at 1:13 pm

    Hydrolyzed proteins are pretty much denatured (all the secondary structure is broken down) so you can add them whenever you like. You would need to heat the system well over the point of boiling water to break a peptide-peptide bond.

  • kot

    Member
    May 13, 2020 at 2:05 pm

    Belassi said:

    Well, you’re made of protein. Would you prefer to be added to the cool down phase, below 40C? Or the heated water phase?

    Hello Belassi, glad to see you are ok!
    What do you want to add ME to? ;)

  • kot

    Member
    May 13, 2020 at 2:08 pm

    Perry said:

    Hydrolyzed proteins are pretty much denatured (all the secondary structure is broken down) so you can add them whenever you like. You would need to heat the system well over the point of boiling water to break a peptide-peptide bond.

    Hello teacher, how are you?  <3
    Thank you for finding time to answer! So, if i add proteins at say 60C-80C, they will be still in tack and working, right?

  • OldPerry

    Member
    May 13, 2020 at 3:53 pm

    @kot - yes, they should still work fine.

  • kot

    Member
    May 13, 2020 at 6:54 pm

    @Perry
    Thank you, wondering why Croda advises to add their keratin below 40 C?

  • OldPerry

    Member
    May 13, 2020 at 8:01 pm

    @kot - I don’t know, perhaps it works better with their marketing story of the ingredient.

  • Pharma

    Member
    May 13, 2020 at 8:34 pm
    Hydrolysed proteins are often hydrolysed by cooking proteins in acid or alkaline solutions. As a rule of thumbs: The smell thereof is reminiscent of bouillon and they tend to be brownish in colour. “Quality” hydrolysed proteins are obtained by enzymatic digestion and therefore smell less/not and are less/not coloured.
    Keratin is a protein, not a hydrolysed protein and hence prone to denaturation… or am I missing something? Denaturation means loss of secondary, ternary, and (if present) quaternary structure without necessarily breaking primary structure (i.e. hydrolysing it by breaking peptide bonds aka cutting the strand into pieces). Denaturation often results in protein precipitation, they clump like milk going sour. This effect may even be observed with partially hydrolysed proteins (polypeptides) but is less likely with highly hydrolysed ones (peptides and oligopeptides). Heat may have other detrimental effects on peptides such as degradation/oxidation of sulfur containing amino acids (cystine, cysteine, and methionine) which are frequent in keratin. Not that this is likely to bother any cosmetics company or cosmetics user, let alone affect efficacy (because efficacy is unlikely to be due to added keratin)… LoL
  • belassi

    Member
    May 13, 2020 at 11:29 pm

    The (very expensive) pea-sprout polypeptides I use in our anti-aging cream turn into pea spup if added to a hot solution, as I discovered to my cost, having to throw out an entire batch.  Kind of like, from green translucent egg white to cooked egg white.

  • OldPerry

    Member
    May 14, 2020 at 12:57 am

    @Belassi - makes sense.  Those aren’t hydrolyzed

  • belassi

    Member
    May 14, 2020 at 1:43 am

    Ahhh,,, I am beginning to understand.

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