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How to stabilize the foam of this shampoo?
I recently made a Shampoo with only anionic and amphoteric surfactants. Flash Foam is good and creamy. The only problem is foam disappear very fast. Like complete disappearance in 1-2 minutes.
What can i change or add to make the foam last longer?
Shampoo ingredients in active
SLS 2%
SLES 4.75%
CAPB 2.25%
Guar hptc 0.2%
Citric acid 2.1%
Tetrasodium EDTA 0.1%
NACL 1.6%pH 5
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17 Replies
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More SLS
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Adding primary alcohol (such as glycerin), glyceryl ethers and amides could help.
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Perry said:More SLS
I am using 3:7 SLS: SLES. What ratio do you suggest?
And should i suggest replacing some SLES with it or just adding more SLS? -
Paprik said:Adding primary alcohol (such as glycerin), glyceryl ethers and amides could help.
By amide do you mean cocamide DEA or MEA?
Can you name some glyceryl ethers?
How and how much glycerin can stabilize foam?
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@Abdullah - I would switch it 7:3 SLS:SLES
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@Perry thanks
I am using SLS powder and that would need 4% citric acid to adjust pH to 5.
SLS liquid will increase the cost too much because liquid and powder is the same price.Is there any other method?
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You have fairly low surfactant levels in this formula - a normal shampoo tends to have around 12% surfactant overall, which will produce more foam and also the more stable foam you are used to.
I would suggest that an increase in viscosity will aid foam stability, as a thicker bubble wall will be stronger - are you able to introduce another thickener other than salt thickening, and perhaps increase guar level slightly as a foam booster? You may also consider different grades of guar as some are more effective at boosting foam than others - your supplier should be able to help with some suggestions.
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Thanks a lot for suggestions
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klangridge said:You have fairly low surfactant levels in this formula - a normal shampoo tends to have around 12% surfactant overall, which will produce more foam and also the more stable foam you are used to.
I would suggest that an increase in viscosity will aid foam stability, as a thicker bubble wall will be stronger - are you able to introduce another thickener other than salt thickening, and perhaps increase guar level slightly as a foam booster? You may also consider different grades of guar as some are more effective at boosting foam than others - your supplier should be able to help with some suggestions.
Guar increases foam especially in 2 in 1 !
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Not directly related to the question but I believe tetrasodium EDTA is to be used in basic not acidic products. You probably need disodium.
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ngarayeva001 said:Not directly related to the question but I believe tetrasodium EDTA is to be used in basic not acidic products. You probably need disodium.
A lot of people say so but they don’t say the reason for it and for several reasons i believe this may not be true.
1. The EDTA part chelates the metals not the sodium part. Sodium only increases the solubility like it does is sodium benzoate and sodium methyl Paraben.
So why would it matter if it has 2 or 4 sodium while there is a lot of sodium in the product anyway?2. A lot of shampoos have tetrasodium EDTA but pH is not basic like this one
https://phique.com/product/phique-moisturizing-shampoo/ -
1Armand2 said:klangridge said:You have fairly low surfactant levels in this formula - a normal shampoo tends to have around 12% surfactant overall, which will produce more foam and also the more stable foam you are used to.
I would suggest that an increase in viscosity will aid foam stability, as a thicker bubble wall will be stronger - are you able to introduce another thickener other than salt thickening, and perhaps increase guar level slightly as a foam booster? You may also consider different grades of guar as some are more effective at boosting foam than others - your supplier should be able to help with some suggestions.
Guar increases foam especially in 2 in 1 !
Thanks
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Abdullah said:ngarayeva001 said:Not directly related to the question but I believe tetrasodium EDTA is to be used in basic not acidic products. You probably need disodium.
A lot of people say so but they don’t say the reason for it and for several reasons i believe this may not be true.
1. The EDTA part chelates the metals not the sodium part. Sodium only increases the solubility like it does is sodium benzoate and sodium methyl Paraben.
So why would it matter if it has 2 or 4 sodium while there is a lot of sodium in the product anyway?2. A lot of shampoos have tetrasodium EDTA but pH is not basic like this one
https://phique.com/product/phique-moisturizing-shampoo/It’s because of the dissociation constant of each carboxylic group in EDTA. Generally speaking, at a pH higher than 10, your structure will have those 4 carboxylic groups in the anionic state and ready to complex with metal ions. At a pH below 6, you’ll only have 3 (one will be protonated by H+); at pH below 3, you might have only 2 available carboxylic groups in the anionic state…which is basically disodium EDTA.
One reason to use tetrasodium EDTA in a product with a pH lower than 6 is both it’s availability and current price compared to disodium EDTA.
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ketchito said:Abdullah said:ngarayeva001 said:Not directly related to the question but I believe tetrasodium EDTA is to be used in basic not acidic products. You probably need disodium.
A lot of people say so but they don’t say the reason for it and for several reasons i believe this may not be true.
1. The EDTA part chelates the metals not the sodium part. Sodium only increases the solubility like it does is sodium benzoate and sodium methyl Paraben.
So why would it matter if it has 2 or 4 sodium while there is a lot of sodium in the product anyway?2. A lot of shampoos have tetrasodium EDTA but pH is not basic like this one
https://phique.com/product/phique-moisturizing-shampoo/It’s because of the dissociation constant of each carboxylic group in EDTA. Generally speaking, at a pH higher than 10, your structure will have those 4 carboxylic groups in the anionic state and ready to complex with metal ions. At a pH below 6, you’ll only have 3 (one will be protonated by H+); at pH below 3, you might have only 2 available carboxylic groups in the anionic state…which is basically disodium EDTA.
One reason to use tetrasodium EDTA in a product with a pH lower than 6 is both it’s availability and current price compared to disodium EDTA.
So at pH 4-5 tetrasodium EDTA would chelate better or at least the same as disodium EDTA. Did i understand it correctly?
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@Abdullah At a pH between 4-5, you’ll have trisodium EDTA instead of tetrasodium EDTA.
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