homogenizer or stirrer for small business starting out?

suswang8

Member

November 9, 2020 at 1:00 am

Yes - the FSH-2A. I am curious about this one, too.

Bo77

Member

November 9, 2020 at 3:24 am

Pharma said:

I decided against stick blenders when I stumbled upon that crap cheap Ultra-Turrax-like Chinese knock-off thingamajig. I ordered it a few days ago.

I wonder whether or not it will be any good or last long… likely not useful for more than 1 litre but that’s fine with me and probably not doing well with high viscosity emulsions (not so fine with me).

I’ll keep you in the loop.

Pharma, sorry to disappoint you but I can report that I got it a month ago and thinking about throwing it out. I don’t know if I’m just extremely unlucky with mine but it’s garbage. Mine doesn’t work as stirrer, too high for this, it will work as homogenizer. It doesn’t work on lowest setting. I tried max 150ml on it. The highest viscosity emulsion I tried was regular basic emulsion of 5g emulsifier( Olivem1000), 3g butter, 2g CA and 15g oil, up to 100 water. I think you can go safely:-)) to 200-300ml with this kind of emulsion. I was curious. I think that if it would not be broken cheap crap, it can actually work LOL. BTW I bough it on Ebay for $120. I’m unlucky in my case, but I read some reviews where people actually like it. Hopefully, you’ll have better luck. :-)

Bo77

Member

November 9, 2020 at 3:28 am

I’m actually looking for some “affordable” reliable homogenizer. I don’t need anything fancy or powerful like crazy, just for my testers formulations I’m doing. I’m curious if homogenizer will kill carbomers in formulations.

suswang8

Member

November 9, 2020 at 3:30 am

In other news, do we know anyone who owns this Rotilabo (Carl Roth) tool? I assume it is basically a Dremel, but I am not sure?

They sell the attachments separately. I guess I could use this in a Dremel? Does the shape of the tip look like it would blend/homogenize well? :*

Pharma

Member

November 9, 2020 at 8:33 am

@Bo77 Thanks for the warning. I’m less interested in it as stirrer but mainly as homogeniser (however, would have been great if it did both). Homogenisers may kill polymers if you overdo the mixing by homogenising for more than just a few minutes. I’d guess that cheaper tools are safer because of a larger gap between rotor and stator.

@suswang8 I considered the Rotilabo tool as alternative to the Chinese tool. Carl Roth is a renowned company with good quality products. I decided against it because it’s a hand held tool and made for rather small quantities. It’s likely not going to work with a normal drill machine, because it’s a rotor-stator attachment and there is no point in spinning the outer part and letting the inner just hang there (or vice versa).

suswang8

Member

November 10, 2020 at 2:06 am

Bo77 said:

I’m actually looking for some “affordable” reliable homogenizer. I don’t need anything fancy or powerful like crazy, just for my testers formulations I’m doing. I’m curious if homogenizer will kill carbomers in formulations.

If you only paid $120 for the FSH-2A, and it is working as a homogenizer for you, that is a good deal.

Paprik

Member

November 10, 2020 at 6:03 pm

Hello guys,

I’m actually using FSH-2A. So I can share some thoughts.
It is not bad. When I bought it, I wasn’t really happy. I thought, it’s introducing way too much air into my product. However, I learnt how to work with it. I don’t even use it on the highest speeed [It also gets warm very fast if used at max speed, so I’m scared to not burn it ] I’ve also made a really small batches. As 70 grams I think. Cleaning is easy, but annoying [probably with every homogen-head].
The heads are short tho. So I’ve head some problem, where tall profile beaker wasn’t the best for it. And the small head is not useful for me at all. I think I’ve used it twice and put it aside.
Let me know if you would have any questions about that.

Pattsi

Member

November 11, 2020 at 7:02 am

suswang8 said:

Also, on what speed setting are you able to comfortable use it? I can see from this video, the person can’t safely take it past 3:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DHBO2O2b5rs&t=757s

Thanks again.

Interesting - If it doesn’t work at least I can use it to blend my soup.
Anyone heard about the price? If it will cost me up to $1,000-$1,500 , I would rather not.

suswang8 said:

In other news, do we know anyone who owns this Rotilabo (Carl Roth) tool? I assume it is basically a Dremel, but I am not sure?

They sell the attachments separately. I guess I could use this in a Dremel? Does the shape of the tip look like it would blend/homogenize well? :*

very interesting - affordable, if it doesn’t work at least I will have one more drill or maybe use it to blend my soup, but well the total length is 90 mm might not reach the pot’s bottom.

Pharma

Member

November 11, 2020 at 8:33 pm

Pattsi said:

…
Anyone heard about the price? If it will cost me up to $1,000-$1,500 , I would rather not.
…

The version only with the homogeniser attachment costs around $ 300 if purchased in Europe from an official retailer.

suswang8

Member

November 12, 2020 at 1:07 am

You can buy the standard Dynamic blender, with multiple attachments, for $150 or so, if you shop around in the US, and this should give decent results (not professional) as long as you don’t make batches smaller than 250g or so. But if you want quasi-professional results or want to do batches as small as 150g or so, you will need the MiniPro Blender Tool (rotor stator head), which typically costs around $200 additional (more than the blender itself). And you are correct, at the end of the day, you at least have a nice hand blender to use. A huge consideration is if you want to be able to do small batches. That, for me, is key, but it may not be for you.

Pattsi

Member

November 12, 2020 at 9:12 am

Pharma said:

Pattsi said:

…
Anyone heard about the price? If it will cost me up to $1,000-$1,500 , I would rather not.
…

The version only with the homogeniser attachment costs around $ 300 if purchased in Europe from an official retailer.

suswang8 said:

You can buy the standard Dynamic blender, with multiple attachments, for $150 or so, if you shop around in the US, and this should give decent results (not professional) as long as you don’t make batches smaller than 250g or so. But if you want quasi-professional results or want to do batches as small as 150g or so, you will need the MiniPro Blender Tool (rotor stator head), which typically costs around $200 additional (more than the blender itself). And you are correct, at the end of the day, you at least have a nice hand blender to use. A huge consideration is if you want to be able to do small batches. That, for me, is key, but it may not be for you.

Thanks a lot guys/girls. - Think I would go for Rotilabo because I will be making small batches, 100g is ideal for me.

suswang8

Member

November 14, 2020 at 5:19 am

Graillotion said:

suswang8 said:

Thank you. I actually just bought the same beaker for the same reason.

In terms of aeration, do you find you need to stir air out of your batches after you’ve used the homogenizing tip? Or not necessary?

I’m trying to decide between this, the Ocis 2.0, or maybe a used Turrax from eBay. Hmmmm.

Actually funny you bring that up….when I send samples of the cream to my test group (all of whom have some skill set in cosmetics), one of the first things they ask me…..is how do you get a product with no air in it??? I don’t know the answer….that is just how it comes out.
Let me first say….the equipment seen in your video…is EXACTLY what I use (Dynamic version….same company). I use Montanov 202 as a primary emulsifier, and also include a polymeric and some carbomer. So my emulsions thicken instantly when the phases are combined.

So no…I do not NEED to stir air out….but I do stir (with a spatula) at least 10 times t/o cool down. The tall narrow beaker….allows me the keep the head submerged…so I suspect very little air is introduced.

Hi, Graillotion.
I got the Dynamic and did a first test using this blade:

Although I had the head submerged, it seems like it still incorporates a bit of air. My results were very similar to what that lady above on YouTube got — except she was using the Blender Tool homogenizer — with a thick, marshmallow/meringue-type texture. I want to get the Blender Tool, largely because I could use it with smaller samples, but not if it too adds in air.

I might also try this blade:

Did you find the Blender Tool incorporates less air than either of these two blades? Also, are you using your device slanted (at an angle)?

Thank you.

Graillotion

Member

November 14, 2020 at 6:08 am

suswang8 said:

Graillotion said:

suswang8 said:

Thank you. I actually just bought the same beaker for the same reason.

In terms of aeration, do you find you need to stir air out of your batches after you’ve used the homogenizing tip? Or not necessary?

I’m trying to decide between this, the Ocis 2.0, or maybe a used Turrax from eBay. Hmmmm.

Actually funny you bring that up….when I send samples of the cream to my test group (all of whom have some skill set in cosmetics), one of the first things they ask me…..is how do you get a product with no air in it??? I don’t know the answer….that is just how it comes out.
Let me first say….the equipment seen in your video…is EXACTLY what I use (Dynamic version….same company). I use Montanov 202 as a primary emulsifier, and also include a polymeric and some carbomer. So my emulsions thicken instantly when the phases are combined.

So no…I do not NEED to stir air out….but I do stir (with a spatula) at least 10 times t/o cool down. The tall narrow beaker….allows me the keep the head submerged…so I suspect very little air is introduced.

Hi, Graillotion.
I got the Dynamic and did a first test using this blade:

Although I had the head submerged, it seems like it still incorporates a bit of air. My results were very similar to what that lady above on YouTube got — except she was using the Blender Tool homogenizer — with a thick, marshmallow/meringue-type texture. I want to get the Blender Tool, largely because I could use it with smaller samples, but not if it too adds in air.

I might also try this blade:

Did you find the Blender Tool incorporates less air than either of these two blades? Also, are you using your device slanted (at an angle)?

Thank you.

I use the dairy blade….when making lotion…and the blender tool…when making cream. Yes, I seem to get less air with the blender tool. I tend to run the homogenizer tool at an angle…because when straight up and down it seems to form a suction on the bottom of the beaker….the angle breaks the suction and the product seems to mix better.

ngarayeva001

Member

November 14, 2020 at 9:56 am

Pharma said:

I decided against stick blenders when I stumbled upon that crap cheap Ultra-Turrax-like Chinese knock-off thingamajig. I ordered it a few days ago.

I wonder whether or not it will be any good or last long… likely not useful for more than 1 litre but that’s fine with me and probably not doing well with high viscosity emulsions (not so fine with me).

I’ll keep you in the loop.

@@Pharma, please let us know if it works. It looks very tempting re price. I am just concerned it won’t be able to deal with 500g batch of any significant viscosity (anything thicker than ketchup). I have cheap Chinese overhead stirrer which isn’t great but does the job for w/o processing (the initial step when water is added by drops at low shear) but I am still using a stick blender for high shear because I can’t find any reasonable alternative.

ngarayeva001

Member

November 14, 2020 at 10:04 am

I am not suggesting it’s the best option on the market but it’s powerful and has smaller size head which allows making small batches (150g). I managed to make several w/si and w/o that haven’t separated for over 12 months (which doesn’t prove those are stable on a commercial level but for w/o it’s almost a success). It can deal with high viscosity if you keep the batch size within 300g.
https://www.robertdyas.co.uk/bosch-msm2623ggb-clevermixx-dip-&-dressing-600w-hand-blender-white-&-green?source=&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIs4PNwuOB7QIVwdPtCh01LAuuEAQYBiABEgLML_D_BwE

emma1985

Member

November 16, 2020 at 4:47 am

Pharma said:

I decided against stick blenders when I stumbled upon that crap cheap Ultra-Turrax-like Chinese knock-off thingamajig. I ordered it a few days ago.

I wonder whether or not it will be any good or last long… likely not useful for more than 1 litre but that’s fine with me and probably not doing well with high viscosity emulsions (not so fine with me).

I’ll keep you in the loop.

I have it and it works an absolute charm for me. Instant (seemingly) emulsification, it’s a beast and introduces 0 air. I will say, you have to turn the knob about halfway for it to get going. I don’t know why but someone in my Facebook group said the same.

You CANNOT stir with it. It’s far too powerful. I use it first to emulsify then switch to my overhead with propeller attachment.

It homogenizes extremely well while the product is warm/hot and liquid, the efficacy decreases as the product gains viscosity (I’m sure you know this.)

Make sure you clean the attachments really well before using it. I ended up with some metal bits my first time using it.

You will never need to use it at the highest speed. Not even close.

suswang8

Member

November 17, 2020 at 12:15 am

emma1985 said:

Pharma said:

I decided against stick blenders when I stumbled upon that crap cheap Ultra-Turrax-like Chinese knock-off thingamajig. I ordered it a few days ago.

I wonder whether or not it will be any good or last long… likely not useful for more than 1 litre but that’s fine with me and probably not doing well with high viscosity emulsions (not so fine with me).

I’ll keep you in the loop.

I have it and it works an absolute charm for me. Instant (seemingly) emulsification, it’s a beast and introduces 0 air. I will say, you have to turn the knob about halfway for it to get going. I don’t know why but someone in my Facebook group said the same.

You CANNOT stir with it. It’s far too powerful. I use it first to emulsify then switch to my overhead with propeller attachment.

It homogenizes extremely well while the product is warm/hot and liquid, the efficacy decreases as the product gains viscosity (I’m sure you know this.)

Make sure you clean the attachments really well before using it. I ended up with some metal bits my first time using it.

You will never need to use it at the highest speed. Not even close.

Hi, Emma.
When you say “instant emulsification,” is this the kind of device that instantly whitens a preparation? I ask because, as part of a separate chat I was having with another board member, some are of the view that emulsions will instantly turn white (a la the famous commercials of making mayonnaise) because of the introduction of air, which is what seems to be happening with me and my Dynamic mixer (and something most stick blenders are guilty of). I know you said it seems to introduce 0 air, but I was just curious about how you sensed it was instantly working.
Many thanks.

emma1985

Member

November 18, 2020 at 7:41 am

*perhaps I should have said visible air bubbles.

i said instant emulsification because I feel like I get a much faster blend using the homogenizer than I do my immersion blender and my overhead stirrer on high speed. Perhaps more importantly, with my immersion blender, when I take breaks I often get separation, but no separation during breaks with the homogenizer. When I use the immersion blender I invariably end up with air bubbles. No air bubbles that I can see with the homogenizer:

catanasio

Member

January 13, 2021 at 6:22 am

Hi @Graillotion! Thank you for all this wonderful information. I’m a newbie here starting out making small batches of lotion. I had a few questions as a follow up to your Dynamic Mixer and setup.

Have you used the Dynamic on larger batches? I’m making 1 gallon batches Of lotion and cream and I’m wondering if It will work as well.
Where did you purchase the Blender/Homogenizer? I’m in the US AND Katom doesn’t seem to carry it.
Do you have it configured on a stand? I found the thread about creating a DIY stand but I’m wondering if I need to get sturdier clamps because of the weight.
Are there clamp holders that will let you pivot it at an angle?

Any help you could provide would be greatly appreciated. Thank you so much!

Graillotion

Member

January 13, 2021 at 6:54 am

catanasio said:

Hi @Graillotion! Thank you for all this wonderful information. I’m a newbie here starting out making small batches of lotion. I had a few questions as a follow up to your Dynamic Mixer and setup.

Have you used the Dynamic on larger batches? I’m making 1 gallon batches Of lotion and cream and I’m wondering if It will work as well.

Where did you purchase the Blender/Homogenizer? I’m in the US AND Katom doesn’t seem to carry it.

Do you have it configured on a stand? I found the thread about creating a DIY stand but I’m wondering if I need to get sturdier clamps because of the weight.

Are there clamp holders that will let you pivot it at an angle?

Any help you could provide would be greatly appreciated. Thank you so much!

1) Yes…I have used it to make lotion….a gallon at a time. Something thicker like a cream…I would be skeptical it could do a gallon.

2) I think I got it here:
Bakery Supplies & Restaurant Supplies, Pastry tools, bakery & restaurant equipment (bakedeco.com)
but I think this was an option as well:
Restaurant Supplies, Equipment & Design - Bargreen Ellingson

I think neither of them kept it in stock….they just would facilitate an order from the warehouse in Canada. The part number is AC560

3) Dynamic’s sister company…Misceo…offers a stand designed for it…(I do not have it)… But I think it is something you could craft quite easily.

Just remember….this is a big heavy machine…. NOTHING like what you get from Amazon. Gets very warm after two minutes of constant use.

catanasio

Member

January 15, 2021 at 9:15 pm

Thank you so much, this is so helpful!