Home Cosmetic Science Talk Formulating Gliding Effect of Emulsion Despite High Viscosity??

  • Gliding Effect of Emulsion Despite High Viscosity??

    Posted by pepe on May 30, 2021 at 2:52 pm

    Hello All,

    I have a problem nowadays with the rheology-afterfeel of an emulsion I have prepared. It is a very simple traditional O/W emulsion with Carbomer. After emulsify water base and oil phase at  80C, let the mixture cool down to 35-40 C and neutralize with TEA. The final product looks like quite well, rigid and viscous but when you try to pick it up, it is too slippery to handle. When you pick it up and apply to your hand it starts to glide as a bulk not flowing.

    Do you have an idea?
    Here is the final formulation below.
    Oil Phase: Emulgade SE+Lanette D+D5+Paraffinum Liquidum 
    Water Phase: Aqua+Carbomer+Euxyl PE9010

    Aqua       86,990
    Carbomer       0,250
    EMULGADE SE       4,500
    LANETTE D / NAFOL 1618 H     1,000
           
    CYCLOPENTASILOXANE     0,400
    FRAGRANCE       0,300
    EUXYL PE9010     0,800
    TEA       0,250
    PARAFFINUM LIQUIDUM     5,500
    ORGANIC
    ALOE VERA GEL
          0,010
    Cafe33 replied 2 years, 7 months ago 6 Members · 11 Replies
  • 11 Replies
  • jemolian

    Member
    May 31, 2021 at 12:50 am

    Just wondering, do you mean that it melts slightly and the product slides off your hand? 

  • Kirk

    Member
    May 31, 2021 at 7:57 am

    Does the emulsion break down when you pick it up with your hand/finger?

  • pepe

    Member
    June 1, 2021 at 8:14 am

    jemolian said:

    Just wondering, do you mean that it melts slightly and the product slides off your hand? 

    Hello jemolian

    Exactly!

  • pepe

    Member
    June 1, 2021 at 8:15 am

    Kirk said:

    Does the emulsion break down when you pick it up with your hand/finger?

    Hello Kirk.

    We cant say break down but it glides like melting butter on the hand.

  • jemolian

    Member
    June 1, 2021 at 8:19 am

    @pepe it’s very likely the carbomer is breaking down due to the electrolytes on your hand. Was your hand sweaty? Have you tried washing your hands, drying it and try picking up the product again? It shouldn’t happen if you use a plastic spatula. 
     

  • pharma

    Member
    June 1, 2021 at 8:31 am

    It might be D5 ‘sweating’ because your emulsifier can’t handle silicone oils too well. This effect can result in something which feels like a w/o emulsion and shows such a sliding effect. However, it results in a very fine film of silicone oil on your hands. If you let water run over the ‘slip trace’, it will pearl off.

  • pepe

    Member
    June 1, 2021 at 3:50 pm

    jemolian said:

    @pepe it’s very likely the carbomer is breaking down due to the electrolytes on your hand. Was your hand sweaty? Have you tried washing your hands, drying it and try picking up the product again? It shouldn’t happen if you use a plastic spatula. 
     

    @@jemolian This is what I thought actually, my hands are always sweaty. It doesn’t happen when my hands are clean and dry as you said. We can not recommend customers to use this cream just after washing and drying your hands or pick it up with a spoon or smthng like that ::smile:

    Is there any recommendation to overcome this problem permanently?
    Using Ultrez 20 or 21 which have high tolerance of electrolyte can be useful?

    Regards,

  • jemolian

    Member
    June 1, 2021 at 4:00 pm

    @pepe ultrez 20 would be useful but you will have to make a small batch to test if it at least meets your expectations with your hand. Do also note that the viscosity for ultrez 20 may also be lower compared to other grades, so you will have to make some adjustments. 

  • Cafe33

    Member
    June 2, 2021 at 4:12 pm

    I was actually about to formulate my first cream with carbomer when I read your post.

    I proceed the following way 

    Aqua       Q.S.
    Carbopol 940       0,250
    GLYCERINE       3,000
       
    POLAWAX NF     3,000
    CETYL ALCOHOL       1,000
    GLYCERYL STEARATE     1,000
    IPM       2,000
    PARAFFINUM LIQUIDUM     5,000
    GERMALL PLUS       0,400

    Neutralized with TEA 0.25%

    I got the same texture and rheology you described. 

    On my second attempt, I added 0.10% Xanthan gum and everything else was the same (other than lowering IPM to 1.5%). It seems to have fixed the problem, it gave it just enough “stringiness”. I don’t know if this helps but I thought I would share.

  • bill_toge

    Member
    June 2, 2021 at 6:30 pm

    try adding more cetyl alcohol to it; that’ll give it more viscosity at rest and make it feel ‘thicker’

  • Cafe33

    Member
    July 19, 2021 at 6:32 pm

    Bill_Toge said:

    try adding more cetyl alcohol to it; that’ll give it more viscosity at rest and make it feel ‘thicker’

    After trying several other runs, one with 0.05% Xanthan, in the end it was Bill_Toge’s suggestion that gave the best result. 

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