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Formulating a Natural Gel?
I have a benchmark product: Botanical Infusion Of Water, Horsetail, Chamomile, Nettle And Marshmallow, Organic Aloe Vera Juice, Agave Nectar Extract, Tocopheryl Acetate (Vitamin E), Pectin, Citric Acid, Potassium Sorbate And Natural Fragrances
1. What % do you think the Pectin was used?
2. And what would be the purpose of Agave Extract?
3. Also the list of herbs after the water…would those be what is infused into the botanical water or extracts? I’m assuming the water as it doesnt say “extract”. -
20 Replies
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1. Enough to form a gel. % depend on pectin quality.2. It’s sweet. Should some get into a customers mouth…3. No idea, it’s not INCI conform AFAIK4. Tocopheryl acetate is not vitamin E but an inactive derivative thereof5. Preservations of that product is questionable6. I wouldn’t use it as a benchmark… but that’s just my personal opinion -
Pharma said:1. Enough to form a gel. % depend on pectin quality.2. It’s sweet. Should some get into a customers mouth…3. No idea, it’s not INCI conform AFAIK4. Tocopheryl acetate is not vitamin E but an inactive derivative thereof5. Preservations of that product is questionable6. I wouldn’t use it as a benchmark… but that’s just my personal opinionIt works great though haha. That’s why I like it, as well its hard to find more “natural” gel alternatives. There are flax gels as well. I agree about the preservative. And whats a better alternative to tocopheryl, pure Vit E im assuming? This is all I hear of in many formulas.
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Correct, take tocopherol and not tocopheryl acetate.First, tocopherol but not tocopheryl acetate protects your product and, as it seems, it’s more active in the skin as well because the acetate is too stable to hydrolyse within useful time. Theory meets biology… (and not that long ago I bought some toco acetate and thought it’s the real deal but alas, you never stop learning.)
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Pharma said:Correct, take tocopherol and not tocopheryl acetate.First, tocopherol but not tocopheryl acetate protects your product and, as it seems, it’s more active in the skin as well because the acetate is too stable to hydrolyse within useful time. Theory meets biology… (and not that long ago I bought some toco acetate and thought it’s the real deal but alas, you never stop learning.)
Thanks so much. If the Toco is listed right before the Pectin, the %of the pectin cant be very high. Is toco usage at about 2% or even less?
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Usually, it’s below 0.5%. Because this is below 1%, it means, the order isn’t necessarily errr… in order. If you get what I mean 🙂 .
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Pharma said:Usually, it’s below 0.5%. Because this is below 1%, it means, the order isn’t necessarily errr… in order. If you get what I mean 🙂 .
You think I could assume the pectin may be at 1%. Just trying to think of a starting point for my testing. What preservative would you recommend for a similar formula that is COSMOS approved? I have Optiphen Plus but its not approved. I may just keep it for my samples. Are you familiar with Luicidal SF? Ive heard good and bad.
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1% seems a fair point to start from. Maybe just add that to plain water and see how it turns out.Are you pH bound? At lower pH, levulinic and anisic acid come to mind. I’d also add a preservative booster such as pentylene glycol.Regarding Leudical SF: Apart from marketing claims, I mainly hear not so good things about it. Maybe in a blend it’ll be okay. Dunno, never tried it myself. A restriction I see whit ferments such as Leucidal is that they supposedly contain bactericins which are often cationic peptide-like molecules and tend to interact with a lot of things, most of all with organic stuff such as plant extracts and with clays. Given that your benchmark is great microbial food, I’d be really careful with choosing preservatives. Cosphatec for example has a nice PDF which helps you choose appropriate (and often COSMOS approved) blends.
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Thanks just went to the site.
When you say lower pH, do you mean 4-5? Everyone seems to want to make things a 5.5 so Im still tackling that as well.
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If you have a pH below 6, this by itself helps for preservation but most of all, you’re free to choose whichever preservative you like.
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@Pharma do you prefer a natural preservative over another. Im trying to follow COSMOS. I have a list of them but not sure how to know if one works better for a particular project. I tried to find the pdf you mentioned. couldnt find it
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HERE you go.As a pharmacist, I prefer the safe and proven ones, which are often parabens and for oral preparations benzoic and sorbic acid (or their salts, respectively).But as a hobby formulator, I love trying the ‘natural’ aka alternative or multifunctional ones (with some exceptions such as caprylhydroxamic acid, something I certainly don’t want on my skin).There is only a ‘know if one works better for a particular project’ once you have done a challenge test
. Sure, there are some in- and exclusion parameters but it’s even more vague with the new preservatives due to lacking experience and research. -
@Pharma thanks so much I really appreciate it. you think something like Benzyl Alcohol (and) Ethylhexylglycerin or Gluconolactone (and) Sodium Benzoate are good choices for most cosmetic formulas?
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@PeaceLoveOrganics - no, not for most formulas. Benzyl Alcohol is a known allergen. Organic acids destabilize emulsions.
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Perry said:…Organic acids destabilize emulsions.
It’s not an emulsion she/he is trying to copy
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Sure. I just don’t want the idea that these alternative preservatives are “good choices for most cosmetic formulas” to be propagated unchallenged.
They certainly can work in specific instances but they are not generally good choices.
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@Pharma so then are these ok to just preserve non emulsions. But if I put an oil in my gel, it would then be an emulsion yes?
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@Perry oh no ok these were my main preservatives i was getting ready to purchase. I have optiphen plus but its not COSMOS approved so I may just use it with my experiments and personal use. What “natural” preservative would be best for natural formulating emulsions?
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PeaceLoveOrganics said:…Benzyl Alcohol (and) Ethylhexylglycerin……Gluconolactone (and) Sodium Benzoate …I wouldn’t feel safe especially with the second blend.Gluconolactone plus benzoic acid won’t do the trick because gluconolactone is just an acid which drops pH and acts as sequestrant/chelant but not as preservative per se whereas benzoic acid is not sufficiently active against mould (and mould is also the one thing which often tolerates a lower pH).Benzyl alcohol is good against Gram+ bacteria and moderately active against Gram- bacteria and yeast but insufficient for mould. Ethylhexylglycerin is said to be broad-spectrum and vapour phase active but I completely lack any scientific data to back up this manufacturer’s claim. My gut feeling tells me that this blend might be weak on the mould side of the spectrum (but again, this is just a hunch). I’d mix it with something strong on the yeast/mould side, just to be sure (which you should, given all the microbe food in your product). Maybe magnolia bark extract or else a general preservative booster.
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@Pharma ok looks like I have some more preservative shopping to do
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leucidal says it works good with cationic ingredients. can you use it then as a full preservative on a quaternized guar gum gel?
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