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critical face wash project
I have a good opportunity to improve my business in this cold market, Very simple product apparently but it seems difficult for me, I am doing Face wash liquid soap, the problem is the it is affected by cold weather and gelling is a problem because it has a pump, i am using peg-120 glucose deoleate around 2% and primary surfactant is coco glucoside, I have tried to add propylene glycol but has not worked, Also I tried to do with SLES as basic surfactant also gelling occured, can anybody suggest me a basic formula or surfactant. By the way transparency and thickness is a must for the customer. please help me guys
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13 Replies
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You would need to share your whole formula mate.
I already cringe when I see coco glucoside as a “primary” surfactant. I personally do not like it much.
By the “gelling” issue, you mean the whole product gels or just at the pump? Coco glucoside does this - it kind of dries and can block the pump where contact with air.
Please share you full formula and method and we will be able to help you
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Do you mean the texture becomes gelatin-like when cold? You can try thicken with higher % surfactant, and lower molecular thickener (alkanolamides, amine oxides, betaine, propylene glycol laurate , etc), but less higher moleculars that crosslink micelles (peg-150 distearate, peg-120 glucose deoleate, peg-150 pentaerythrityl tetrastearate) and less salt.Also there some water-soluble emollients can help with the gelatin issue, but I forget which. -
Paprik said:You would need to share your whole formula mate.
I already cringe when I see coco glucoside as a “primary” surfactant. I personally do not like it much.
By the “gelling” issue, you mean the whole product gels or just at the pump? Coco glucoside does this - it kind of dries and can block the pump where contact with air.
Please share you full formula and method and we will be able to help you
the whole product gelling not just in the pump, also you can see gelling when you rub it on your skin,
My formula as below:
Coco glucoside 55% active 10% I use it here to avoid SLES gelling
SLES 70% active 2%
Betain 45 active 2%
Cocamide DEA 1%
peg-120 Deoleate 2%
Glycerin 3%
Lamesoft PO65 1%
And no salt Added because i need super clear liquid, very clear and thick liquid is the target formulation -
zetein said:Do you mean the texture becomes gelatin-like when cold? You can try thicken with higher % surfactant, and lower molecular thickener (alkanolamides, amine oxides, betaine, propylene glycol laurate , etc), but less higher moleculars that crosslink micelles (peg-150 distearate, peg-120 glucose deoleate, peg-150 pentaerythrityl tetrastearate) and less salt.Also there some water-soluble emollients can help with the gelatin issue, but I forget which.
yes exactly gelatin like texture especially when you rub it with your hands, I need very clear thick liquid soap, If I discarded Peg-120 and betain and Glyceryl oleate and cocamide DEA, how could I maintain high viscosity? I have not added Salt because it can blur a little the clearness of liquid. Do you have suggestion for Surfactant system can give super clear liquid and thickness.
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My bet is Lamesoft PO65. Have you tried it without it?
It is great in bar products, but in liquid surfactant systems it causes a loooot of headaches to people.
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@Robert I’m sorry I meant more surfactant and more lower molecular thickeners. Betaine and glyceryl oleate and cocamide DEA are good and you can try increasing them to remedy the viscosity after decreasing peg-120.
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Abdullah said:Use less Peg-120.
@Paprik what was your problem with po65?
I have no problem with it.
i know peg-120 is the main problem but I thought there is alternative way to fix this, because no alternative to Peg-120 especially in super clear formulations, do you have any surfactant suggestion?
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zetein said:@Robert I’m sorry I meant more surfactant and more lower molecular thickeners. Betaine and glyceryl oleate and cocamide DEA are good and you can try increasing them to remedy the viscosity after decreasing peg-120.
Do you think SLES will not freez or gelled if I try it without adding Salt too much? how about HPMC use? can it solve the problem or it will precipitate
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@Robert I agree with @Abdullah and @zetein. Find the right amount of PEG-120 that gibes viscosity but doesn’t gel. For instance, try with 1.5 or even 1%, if you still need some viscosity, inctease your Cocamide DEA. You could also do yourself a favor, and wliminate (or drastically reduce) Glycerin. No real benefit and it might be impairing your foam.
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@Abdullah personally I did not have issues with it either. However I did not use it a lot. But from IPCS everyone who ever had a problem with surfactant system and had there Lamesoft, it was the culprit.
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I’ve tried working work lamesoft at least 50 times. Always a pain. Always separates eventually.
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ketchito said:@Robert I agree with @Abdullah and @zetein. Find the right amount of PEG-120 that gibes viscosity but doesn’t gel. For instance, try with 1.5 or even 1%, if you still need some viscosity, inctease your Cocamide DEA. You could also do yourself a favor, and wliminate (or drastically reduce) Glycerin. No real benefit and it might be impairing your foam.
I think @Paprik is right, first sample confirm his comment, I will do more samples to be sure as well.
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