2 in 1 Shampoo troubleshooting

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2 in 1 Shampoo troubleshooting

Posted by manstra on February 8, 2015 at 4:24 pm

Dear all,

This is my first post in the forum. I’m relatively new to the field of formulation of shampoos and I would like to ask your expertise. Over the last 10 months I struggle in formulating a shampoo comprised with :

Water, SLES 70%, Cocamidopropyl Betaine 30%, Peg-4 Rapeseedamide 97%,Cetyl Alcohol, Panthenol, Cetearyl Alcohol, PEG 40 Castol oil, Polyquaternium 10, Caprylic Capric Triglycerides, Phenoxyethanol, Benzyl Alcohol, Polysorbate 20, Sodium Benzoate, Potassium Sorbate, Fragrance, Citric acid. (In descending order).

I don’t use vacuum to mix ingredients and I have a Silverson AX-5 mixer which I use at 1000 - 1500rpm max in order to avoid excessive aeration.

The total actives of the above recipe are 15%. I don’t give exact recipe percentages because I’m still trying to adjust it.

I have to say that I’m not using yet a stabilizing/thickening agent (acrylates copolymer, NaCl) although I have done in the past because the final is viscocity is preferable without them (around 4000cPa). When I used NaCl or copolymer in the above recipe I always had a very viscous/almost solid final product even in a minor percentage.

The problem is:

After 1 week the above recipe presents emulsion “cracks” throughout its mass and after 2 weeks there is a seperation of the “cream phase” (top) and the water phase (bottom). The problem seems to be solved if I use a copolymer but the viscocity is highly increased making the product undesirable. Do you have any recommendation on how to solve this issue e.g. adding an ingredient or even adjusting the active percentages?

Gustavo replied 8 years, 5 months ago 6 Members · 9 Replies
9 Replies

belassi

Member
February 8, 2015 at 7:31 pm

To be honest, I don’t know why you have half of those ingredients present. I’d remove these:

Cetyl Alcohol (good in a conditioner but not in a shampoo)

Cetearyl Alcohol (ditto)

PEG 40 Castol oil

Caprylic Capric Triglycerides

Polysorbate 20

I spent forever trying to develop a conditioning shampoo. I understand that there is an industry-typical combination and one of the chemists who is familiar with that will no doubt advise.

My own solution came in the form of a PSEUDO QUAT, a condensed resin that acts like a conditioning quat but is compatible with anionic systems like yours. The one I use is called Polyquart H-81. You could also try a water-dispersible silicone ester.
manstra

Member
February 8, 2015 at 8:51 pm

I forgot to mention that my initial goal was to have a cream like consistancy in my shampoo and that is the reason I chose Cetyl Alcohol and Cetearyl Alcohol. I use the polysorbate 20 to support the dillution of the natural extracts and the fragrance. I also used the triglycerides as a mild emolient for the scalp.

Thank you Belassi for that quick answer and for giving me the clue that the polyquaternium 10 might have caused the incompatibility with my surfactant system.

Could you give me a clue of a silicone ester that you might use? Would it be nesessary to use also glycol distearate to disperse it?
belassi

Member
February 9, 2015 at 12:54 am

I tried using Silsense DW-18 at quite low % to see if it was a good film-former, because film forming is pretty useful in conditioning as it improves combability and shine. As far as I recall I found that as little as 0.1% was quite effective. It ‘dissolves’ in water, yielding a clear solution, no need to use solubilisers.
SBeinker

Member
November 21, 2015 at 6:22 pm

I have an extra 54 lbs. of Glycol Distearate that I would like to sell (see my recent blog). This is the secret 2-in-1 technology ingredient used in “Pert” and “Pantene.” I could only find it in a minimum order of 55 lbs. bags. I found that a very small amount of Glycol Distearate makes a great emulsion agent (especially with dimethicone) and gives the shampoo a nice creamy pearlescent shine. It works out to something around $5 / lbs. with shipping. If you are interested in buying it in any amount, please drop me an e-mail.

Thanks,

Scott Beinker

sbeinker@hotmail.com
David

Member
November 22, 2015 at 1:17 pm

I made something similar once - I then used an acrylate to stabilize the formulation. Too thick is rarely a problem - just decrease one of the thickening ingredients - f.ex Peg-4 Rapeseedamide.
OldPerry

Member
November 24, 2015 at 1:47 pm

If you want a creamy appearance get rid of the Cetyl and Ceterayl Alcohols and use 1% Glycol Stearate (EGMS)

Also, I’d suggest you do a knockout experiment to see what effect each ingredient is having.

https://chemistscorner.com/do-you-know-the-fastest-way-to-become-an-expert-cosmetic-formulator/

Knockout Experiments for Cosmetics - The Fastest Way to Become an Expert Formulator
manstra

Member
November 24, 2015 at 10:15 pm

First of all thank you all

After that long period I manage to develop the shampoo by using both glycol stearate, glycol distearate, dimethicone and dropped out P10 and P7. I found the optimal quantity to be both 2,25% in a formulation consisting of 12% active sles, 6% cocobetaine, 6% Peg-4 Rapeseedamide, 3% PEG -6 Caprylic Capric Glycerides with a very nice thickening effect as well.

Kind regards for your fruitful feedback
belassi

Member
November 24, 2015 at 11:10 pm

Thanks for posting the update!
Gustavo

Member
December 1, 2015 at 7:47 pm

I’ve been developing conditioning shampoos with PQ-10 and PQ-7 for ages without incompatibilities.

But once the issue ir over I guess I can’t help much. But thank you all for this discussion. I liked to see the use of EGMS and recommendation of PEG derivatires. Don’t tell the world, but I do love them!