Members Directory - Chemists Corner

Zink

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December 5, 2014 at 12:14 am in reply to: Formulating a concealer pt 2 - Using a rock tumbler and ensuring optimal powder+oil mixing, advice?

So I have Creasperse samples, but I don’t know how to formulate with them, how much to use etc, has anyone got a concealer formula using it? All I see is typical usage level 1 - 10%

Zink

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November 24, 2014 at 3:07 am in reply to: Incorporate 4% Tea Tree Oil into a gel with the least number of natural ingredients

TTO at 4% is better tolerated than BPO at 3% according to the study. So should be fine for most people. Testing Konjac Root Powder for starters

Zink

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November 18, 2014 at 6:11 pm in reply to: Incorporate 4% Tea Tree Oil into a gel with the least number of natural ingredients

@Bobzchemist “Naturally derived” is fine. Sclerotium gum is wonderful, I use it, but didn’t know it could hold that much oil on its own? That’s definitely the logical choice then.

@MarkBroussard 4% tea tree oil is high, but it needs to be about that high to do anything about acne. How is Konjac Root Powder better than Sclerotium Gum for this?

Zink

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November 18, 2014 at 3:36 am in reply to: Cold weather

Some general guidelines for propylene glycol’s antifreeze properties in emulsions would be useful for me, to give you a starting point for testing.

Zink

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November 17, 2014 at 4:47 pm in reply to: Sodium PCA vs Sodium Lactate - Pros and Cons? List of claims.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3486775/ and http://jddonline.com/articles/dermatology/S1545961613P0664X#close both refer to the same result, they are not blinded, does not report the molecular weight of the HA used, confounding factor not controlled for (use of Cetaphil cleanser), no control lotion used, worthless result on its own - needs a follow up controlled study.

It’s insane that they’re allowed to conclude that “Improvement was noted in measured clinical parameters with use of topical low molecular weight hyaluronic acid. Topical low molecular weight hyaluronic acid is another option that may be considered for the treatment of rosacea in the adult population. Compliance and tolerance were excellent.”.

https://personal-care.evonik.com/product/personal-care/en/media-center/downloads/publications/Documents/sofw-hyacare-50.pdf < More interesting as they test different HA molecular weights: Shows that HA between 20 and 40 kilo Dalton produce a significant pro inflammatory response and should not be used, whereas 50 kD is OK and penetrates animal skin about 5x better than 800 kD HA and induced gene expression of 120 genes vs 40 for 800 kD HA.

BUT, they do not do any control with their human in vivo test nor do they report the actual numbers and confidence of the results, hence it’s likely BOGUS with only 12 female volunteers.

Zink

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November 13, 2014 at 4:27 pm in reply to: Sodium PCA vs Sodium Lactate - Pros and Cons? List of claims.

Nonetheless, where is the evidence that Low Molecular weight HA applied topically is helpful compared to e.g. sodium lactate?

Seems like all hype, no evidence.

Zink

Member

November 13, 2014 at 4:23 am in reply to: When a contract manufacturer ask you for a “price target” per unit, how should you respond?

Building that sense of economics myself, I’ve seen price vary as much as 10x between manufacturers once you factor in all their required testing and fees.

Get 3 quotes if you already have established a good relationship with those three and know that they are capable and competitive in pricing. Otherwise I’d get 30 quotes LOL.

Zink

Member

November 13, 2014 at 4:20 am in reply to: Sodium PCA vs Sodium Lactate - Pros and Cons? List of claims.

How do we know super/ultra low MW HA is a good thing even given that it has some skin penetration ability? Bulk Actives recommends against using it and can’t find any studies: https://bulkactives.com/hyaluronic-acid-ultra-low-moceluar-weight-powder.html

“Assuming small size HA molecules penetrate into the dermis, they are likely to trigger some elements of the wound healing response (as we discussed above), such as immune activation, inflammation, cell division, blood vessel growth, new skin matrix synthesis and so forth. The net effect might be either matrix degradation and accelerated skin aging or matrix remodeling and improved skin texture. Studies are required to answer this question.”Hyaluronic acid: Skin matrix health is not just about proteins and Hyaluronic acid for skin hydration and possibly a lot more; by Dr. Todorov, smartskincare.com

For this reason we previously stopped selling ultra low molecular weight Hyaluronic acid, and were encouraging customers to focus on using the Niacinamide/Glucosamine combination to increase natural Hyaluronic acid production in the skin.”

Zink

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November 11, 2014 at 4:00 pm in reply to: Sodium PCA vs Sodium Lactate - Pros and Cons? List of claims.

I hear hyaluronic acid could actually dry the skin.

Zink

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November 11, 2014 at 12:03 am in reply to: Sodium PCA vs Sodium Lactate - Pros and Cons? List of claims.

In either a moisturizing lotion or a cleanser.

Zink

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November 10, 2014 at 8:20 pm in reply to: When a contract manufacturer ask you for a “price target” per unit, how should you respond?

Thanks, very useful feedback. I’ve gone ahead and asked for clarification, and if asking for cost of manufacture per unit, asked to receive a quote as a starting point, as I’m delivering a complete formula including method

Zink

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October 29, 2014 at 9:55 pm in reply to: Improve the stability of Ewax based emulsion with co-emulsifiers?

An interesting example is from Neutrogena on the spot, HLB values in ().

Active: Benzoyl Peroxide (2.5%), Other: Water, Bentonite, Caprylic/Capric Triglyceride (11), Glycerin, Emulsifying Wax Nf, Polysorbate 20 (16.7), Glyceryl Laurate (5.2), Cetyl Dimethicone, Magnesium Aluminum Silicate, Xanthan Gum, Sodium Citrate, Disodium EDTA, Citric Acid, Methylparaben, Propylparaben.

They’ve gone a long way to make sure their formula is stable, using two extra co-emulsifiers and two thickeners.

Zink

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October 24, 2014 at 6:59 pm in reply to: Emulsion stabilizers that don’t worsen skin feel or absorption

So I have some ideas for changing the emulsifier system and then testing other thickeners, aiming for HLB 8. A combination of these low/high HLB emulsifiers:

Low HLB

Glyceryl Stearate

Steareth-2

High HLB

Ceteareth-20

Cetearyl Alcohol
Polysorbate 20

Preblend

Sepiplus 400
Ewax NF (Control)

Thickeners
Carnabua Wax, Cetyl Alchohol, Sclerotium Gum, Magnesium Aluminum Silicate, Lipidthix, Permulen TR2.

Any other ideas?

Zink

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October 24, 2014 at 6:54 pm in reply to: Formulating a concealer pt 2 - Using a rock tumbler and ensuring optimal powder+oil mixing, advice?

Well, there’s a subset of it that frowns upon it, but It’s probably not important. More label beautification than anything, although I’ve been experimenting with boron nitride.

Zink

Member

October 20, 2014 at 11:10 pm in reply to: Formulating a concealer pt 2 - Using a rock tumbler and ensuring optimal powder+oil mixing, advice?

I was trying to make a formula without Titanium Dioxide to target the “natural” skincare market, do you happen to know the minimum order quantity for e.g. creasperse?

Zink

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October 20, 2014 at 2:25 pm in reply to: Formulating a concealer pt 2 - Using a rock tumbler and ensuring optimal powder+oil mixing, advice?

What natural ones are available? Ball milling all the minerals together not enough?

Zink

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October 20, 2014 at 2:23 pm in reply to: Coco Betaine VS Sodium Cocoamphoacetate VS Decyl Polyglucoside? Water based cleanser.

Guess the keratolytic effect could be beneficial in a cleanser designed for acne prone skin Lactic acid would be another option, but the smell…

Zink

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October 20, 2014 at 3:02 am in reply to: Coco Betaine VS Sodium Cocoamphoacetate VS Decyl Polyglucoside? Water based cleanser.

Thanks guys, guess it’s not easy to know. The formula is adjusted to pH 4 with glycolic or citric acid btw. Not sure if they are equivalent in effect or irritation potential.

Zink

Member

October 1, 2014 at 4:13 pm in reply to: Emulsion stabilizers that don’t worsen skin feel or absorption

Yes, oils turn out to be good vehicles for benzoyl peroxide, and people with acne have seen good results moisturizing with non comedogenic oils.

Zink

Member

September 30, 2014 at 7:33 pm in reply to: Emulsion stabilizers that don’t worsen skin feel or absorption

Thanks Matt, very interesting. I guess I’m shooting for peroxide stable enough, aiming for a 2 year shelf life or 2 months of retained stability at 45C.

Do you know whether monounsaturation vs polyunsaturation makes a significant stability difference? And how much more stable are saturated oils? Would be interesting to look into this.

Perhaps combining Steareth-2 with Ceteareth-21 could work as an emulsifier system? Any co emulsifiers that could help stability? How about polysorbates?

Zink

Member

September 25, 2014 at 7:16 pm in reply to: Thickening an acidic water based cleanser where Xanthan Gum has failed

Ok here goes, minimum orders:
Glucamate VLT, 16kg pail, 26 pr kg
Carbopol® Aqua CC Polymer, 40lb pail, 9.89 per lb

Zink

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September 25, 2014 at 5:50 pm in reply to: Cosmetic grade 99.8% vs normal grade 99.0% Urea for use in cosmetics

Thanks! Got any preferred suppliers of 99% grade?

Zink

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September 25, 2014 at 5:44 pm in reply to: Thickening an acidic water based cleanser where Xanthan Gum has failed

Interesting, ordering samples, I forgot to ask the rep, but what are minimum orders and est prices?

Zink

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September 23, 2014 at 8:19 pm in reply to: Thickening an acidic water based cleanser where Xanthan Gum has failed

I will try to reformulate it using 1% Laponite XLG, the version they recommended for my application. Will be interesting to see how/if it lathers.

Zink

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September 23, 2014 at 8:17 pm in reply to: Looking for small scale, 50 - 200 unit, non OTC contract manufacturers

Thanks David, you look like what I’m looking for!

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