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So when used with no water AFTER (wet) exfoliation and drying the skin, they dont pill.
If used before exfoliation, they pill.
Wondering if it’s due to lack of absorption due to dead skin, or dead skin directly causing the silicone to pill up?
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Thanks! Any specific chelates that could work here? Optimal pH?
Think it needs a multi prong strategy.
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I read the instructions for ultrapuregel, and it says that for maximal emulsion stability add it to the water phase pre-emulsion, but for maximal viscosity add it after emulsification after cooldown.
I guess both ways usually work, but the question is which works best for what goal.
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Thanks for the input, yes the factors other than stability can be added with other ingredients, but still choosing and emulsifier that performs well with regards to those factors could be beneficial.
My main concern with this formula is penetration of retinol, there are some studies indicating certain oils may help (oleic acid definitely helps but may disrupt the skin barrier too much), frankly I’m not sure if the emulsifier will have much influence on this so I’m asking here
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bump
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Great, will give it a try
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Interesting, does it have any other beneficial properties or downsides? Where do you buy it?
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Just a bit foamy at least, most 10% formulas are not foamy whatsoever.
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It can definitely generate a very smooth product giving your skin a feel similar to conditioned hair, but there are other ways to achieve that.
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Good tip! Let’s see if they ship to the US
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Or maybe just go for low amounts of essential oils..
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bump
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It is an antioxidant but that is perhaps not reason enough? The product is already somewhat green from sencha green tea.
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Bump
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Good tip, on paper looks like it should work and it’s cheaper than sclerotium gum ($77 vs $55/lb bought online).
Any other options?
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Oh and HEC unfortunately does not give a clear formula, likely due to the low pH / lactic acid.
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Definitely convinced it’s not worth the effort by now..
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A reference to a dermatology book in Portuguese that’s not available online doesn’t convince me topical gluten sensitivity is impossible, I’m not claiming it’s common but I don’t think that enough to rule it out.
Jacques CMC. Ramos-e-Silva M, Castro MCR. Fundamentos de Dermatologia. Rio de Janeiro: Atheneu; 2009. Dermatite herpetiforme e dermatose por IgA Linear; pp. 653–658. [Google Scholar]
There’s some anecdotal evidence hinting to the possibility:“…it is my clinical experience that several patients with celiac disease and dermatitis herpetiformis have reported reactions to what appears to be topical exposure to gluten (or air-borne in the case of hair spray) in body care products and that this reaction resolved once they stopped using the gluten-containing product. We do not know for certain if it was a gluten-containing ingredient or some other ingredient that caused the reaction, or if the product was tested for gluten. However, each of us knows our own body best. I support my patients who follow a gluten-free diet in selecting cosmetics free of gluten, in particular lip products and hair and face lotion, should they choose to do so.”
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It’s the after effect minutes after application I’m interested in, a lot of AHA lotions will make your skin -feel- dry after.
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Thanks @emma1985 and @ketchito , here’s a reformulation with more triglycerides, cetyl alcohol, btms and dimethicone + added safflower seed oil and lauryl laurate as a slip agent and lastly more glycerin as a solvent for azelaic acid (could make it a bit tackier..) - thoughts?
Ingredient INCI % Behentrimonium Methosulfate 1.00+0.5% Capric/Caprylic Triglycerides 5.00+3% Safflower Seed Oil 3.00 Dimethicone (CPS 1000) 1.00+1% Cetyl Alcohol 2.00+1% Lauryl Laurate 3.00 Stearic Acid 1.00 Allantoin 0.50 Water 58.50 Azelaic Acid 5.00 Bisabolol 1.00 Glycerin 3.00+3% Niacinamide 5.00 Tocopherol, Carthamus tinctorius (Safflower) Oil 0.50 Glycolic Acid 1.00 Glucono Delta Lactone 1.00 SUM 100.0 -
Thanks @ketchito - i think the triglycerides can do the job of mineral oil here, but how much and what CPS of dimethicone would you suggest?
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Thanks Bill, seems like more glycerin might also help then up to say 6%?
I’ve used BHB before but would like to avoid minimum orders for this one.What do you think of the following changes for the next iteration?
+3% Safflower seed oil (high linoleic)
+5% Capric/Caprylic triglycerdies
+1% Cetyl Alcohol (or could cetearyl be better? which is used in BTMS-25?).
+3% Glycerin
+0.5% BTMS (we’re using 100%) -
Yes certainly, do you think Lotionpro 165 would be better? What about just adding more Cetyl Alcohol instead?
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Isn’t Cholesterol need around 120 °C to melt? Can Caprylic/Capric Triglyceride withstand the heat?
Around 145C, but it’s soluble in other oils and organic solvents so it generally solubilizes without needing high heat.
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You will need to confirm the xanthan is compatible with the BTMS
Good point I forgot about that, replacing it with sclerotium gum.¨
I have a lot of customers with acne, and I still (urgh) am prone to break out on both face and body, so anything with some benefit for acne but also normal skin is good (e.g. using niacinamide and making sure it’s not too comedogenic esp for those with already oily skin).
Niacinamide powder, no it’s only an issue with strong acids or high concentrations of weak acids (AHAs) potentially:
“In the study “Rate Studies on the Hydrolysis of Niacinamide” and they were using hydrochloric acid to perform the experiment in the acid region (which is all we care about here). This is a significant detail as hydrochloric acid is a strong acid whereas AHA’s are weak acids. Acid strength is not just about how much you put in a formula – 10%, 20%, 2% etc – it is also about how readily the acid let’s go of its hydrogen ion – its dissociation constant. Strong acids completely dissociate in water meaning that even at low % concentrations the acid is quite potent. Weak acids have only a tiny part of themselves raring to go meaning that even at high concentrations they won’t be quite so aggressive. The above study found that a 10% Niacinamide solution heated to around 89C and then taken to a pH of below 4.5 with a STRONG acid did start to hydrolyse and form Niacin and that this conversion was a first order reaction which basically means it went from Niacinamide to Niacin without turning into anything else first. The study found that between pH 4.5-6 very little of this crazy game of shape shifting occurred. In fact at pH 4.5 – 6 the half-life of the solution was found to be 1000 days which probably means that the average cosmetic formulator has little to worry about.”