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@Perry Actually I’m following a free recipe from where I studied at in IPCS which i believe it have been tested. (Thats why it is published for all).

I do not change the formula too much, because I’m afraid it won’t function as it supposed to.

But I’m suspecting there is a misunderstanding here (Maybe I got it wrong). Usually at IPCS they always write the formula using trademark. For this recipe, they just write it 5% polyquarternium-7. 

After I do little research, it seems the most commonly available polyquarternium-7 is in liquid form (which the active content is only around 9%). (My polyquat-7 in my lab is also liquid).
In this case, if we add 5% of this polyquat-7, it means we only add an active content of 0.45% which is in your range (not more than 1%).

What do you think? I never play with other polyquat (not even polyquat-10) because of the availability in my region.

Thanks so much Perry  

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@crillz I tried 2% cetearyl and it seems much better for the thickness. Do you have any idea which is better between cetearyl and cetyl alcohol for conditioner? 

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@chemicalmatt i cannot source that in my region.. carbopol series available in my area are 980, 940, 990, ultrez20, ultrez21. Maybe i can get more if I contact directly to the factory, but it is impossible as I cannot afford to buy big quantities at this stage

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@Bill_Toge Thank you. Unfortunately I cannot get the specification for each material. These suppliers never want to share that information. I understand because i buy in small quantities, so this is my problem not their.

As for decyl glucoside, is there any way to mask the odour? I’m worried if i have to increase the fragrance oil, as it will increase the chance of irritation and make my formula become unstable in the long run.

Thanks once again! really appreciate your help

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@Cafe33 Thank you for sharing your experience. I tried using this yellow Cocamidopropyl betaine 8 months ago, and for every 2 months, I keep buying from this supplier, and it is always yellow. However it does not smell at all. Until i tried this other supplier that stated from KAO, it is super clear white and i prefer this. As for decyl glucoside, 1 buy from 2 different supplier, and both smells bad. (Sorry, but its kinda like a fart  smell…).

[vhogiono]

@PhilGeis yes, I always try to add EDTA 0.2% on my formulation. Although it acts as chelating agent, but it is said it can help boost the preservative effect. But sometimes I don’t use it where cation surfactant is in my formula. Thanks for your insight.

@ngarayeva001 the problem in my region here, small supplier won’t say the trade name. I can never source phenonip here. Instead, I can only find singular item such phenoxyethanol, which this brings me to another question guys.

Kemidant L Plus: according to the SDS, it is broad spectrum. Its INCI: DMDM Hydantoin, Iodopropynyl butylcarbamate, butylene glycol, aqua.

Can I think of it same as when I make my own preservative blend? In this case I buy singular item of DMDM Hydantoin (bactericidal), and Potassium Sorbate (fungicidal). Then i use both at the allowed maximum input by European commision, which is (DMDM Hydantoin 0.6%, and Potassium Sorbate 0.6%).

With using blend of singular item (without trademark or brands), the cost will be much cheaper and easily accessible. What do you think guys?  

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@crisbaysauli Thank you so much! I’m glad there are people out there have tried using DMDM Hydantoin for leave-on products and its works just fine.

Now, I can be more confident in using this preservative for my leave-on product.

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@PhilGeis  thanks for your insight. What do you mean DMDM Hydantoin is high? (Do you mean my input at 0.6% is too high?).

I agree, my combination of DMDM Hydantoin and Potassium sorbate should work, but I just wonder whether it is safe enough to be used on leave-on product?

Is there any valid information or research that mentioned Sodium benzoate is milder to skin compares to DMDM Hydantoin? and does it work equally effective compares to DMDM Hydantoin?

Once again, thank you so much for your information

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@Abdullah Thank you!, yes I tried to make the cetearyl alcohol into 2% only and remove shea butter. It feels less thick. 

Now I’m doing the freeze-thaw cycle for stability testing. Usually on cycle 2-3 the water always separates. Hope this time it works, so I can have a simple and stable conditioner formula.

Will update you guys if the formula works and stable

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@Benz3ne thank you. Mine is Natrosol HBR 250. I have tried to remove this completely but still it is too thick.
@crillz according theory, behentrimonium chloride is cationic which mean it can irritate quite easily. and cetearyl alcohol suppose to counter that irritancy. anyway i will try to make it 1-2% then.

Thanks guys

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Hi @Andraous . Thanks for your insight. I did right away trying what you suggest which is using other carbomer.

I tried Carbopol Ultrez 20, with same formula and input rate. However it turns out to form microfoam even more. It is even more unpleasant.

Do you think think Ultrez 21 will be different? Sorry I cannot find ultrez 21 in my region, thats why i decided to try ultrez 20.

Thanks so much 

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Thank you for your guidance

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Thank you Perry and Belassi for your advise and the time to read my post. I’m also suspecting the Fragrance oil. Until today I have no idea that FO can possibly turns the surfactant color into pink. The one that turns really pink is somewhat like citrusy, orange and lemon FO.

The other which I use somekind like marine/ocean FO also turns from white to ivory color (hints that it turned into slight yellowish). 

Its really hard to do microbial testing in my small workshop right now. I’m trying to be as sterile as possible. Including the bottle from suppliers, I washed it with 200ppm Chlorine and air dry it before packaging.

Do you think I need to sterilize with Ethanol or IPA again before packaging?
As for the 2% FO, I will try to reduce into 1.5%. I was taught to limit up to 0.6% only, but the problem is everytime i do market research, all of potential customers says its aroma is not strong enough. All my competitors has strong smell and lingers on skin quite long time.

Thank you very very much for your insight.

[vhogiono]

Hi everyone. I’m Vincent, and thank you for letting me join the forum. I just graduated from formulation chemist diploma, and hope to get more and hopefully can share some good information to all of you.