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@ketchito Thanks so much for the reference and also the premix aprox. It seems the way I process it is wrong. I will try this. 

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@ketchito Yes, this is what I’m trying numerous time but keep failing. I tried to mix Cetyl Alcohol or Cetearyl Alcohol from 1-5% range in hot process to my surfactant mix (basically SLES and CAPB), however when it cools down, the fatty alcohol just separate and turn to lumps. I guess its not that simple to process this. I will keep trying and update the result. Thanks

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@Bax65 I would really love to try Styrene/Acrylates Copolymer, but i just can’t find it here in my region. As for Mica colorant i will try it, but usually I use it to color candle as it mix well with wax/oil substance.

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@Shams interesting. I never tried pearlizier at 10%. My max was around 5%, and even with that amount its really hard to thicken it. Salt will not be enough to help thicken even it consist of SLES, and CAPB at the right amount. I will try 10% then with the help of other thickening agent such PEG150 Distearate. 

By the way, this is for bodywash (rinse off), so white rubbing effect should not be seen. 

Thank you

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@RDchemist15 Thanks so much for your insight.

About acrylates copolymer, yes I’m using only “Acrylates copolymer” which mean it is not Opulyn 301. Does it need neutralization? Actually it serve no purpose in my bodywash, but since it gives that murky/opaque appearance I decided to add 1%. (But again, I just add it into my water phase without neutralization). However this is my last options, as this formula still does not provide opaque appearance enough.

And for case where I add cow milk, I use 0.6% DMDM Hydantoin only for my preservative. (I’m following european maximum limit). Do you think its enough? should I add Potassium sorbate for anti-fungal effect?

What I understand is, when we add powder (particle), we need some rheology modifier such gums to help suspend it. However, in this case I’m using liquid drinking milk (from supermarket) at 10% to get the full opaque color that I want. Is this liquid cow milk still means particles that need to be suspend? Do you think this is way too much?

What do yo think if I use titanium dioxide to give opaque appearance? Does it makes no sense in bodywash?

Really appreciate your help and sorry for so many questions

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@RDchemist15 Thanks for your feedback. I can’t find that trade name/ingredient in my country. I believe the name won’t be a problem because consumer habits here do not really check for the ingredient list.

Actually, I tried Acrylates Copolymer (I don’t know the trade name because retailers here just sell as it is). I tried up to 2%, and it gives slight bluish opaque (still translucent). I believe this helps particle suspension as well, but it just won’t give that opaque/milk-looking appearance. 

Is real milk (supermarket full cream cow milk) can be use in a bodywash? Will it stale easily and shorten my product life?

Thank you so much  

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@chemicalmatt thanks for your insight. Please correct me if I’m wrong. Bodywash is majority from water, and for that reason I shouldn’t use mica-based colorant right? (mica is oil soluble only).

Secondly, does adding yield value to keep the suspension means adding rheology modifier, such xanthan gum, or guar gum?

I see many cleanser (especially face cleanser, which is more like a paste) use titanium dioxide. In this case I’m assuming if titanium dioxide is also fine for bodywash product. Is this wrong? I’m reading some reference like as below:
https://health.howstuffworks.com/skin-care/cleansing/products/titanium-dioxide-in-cleansers.htm

Thank you again for your reply.

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@Bill_Toge Thanks for your feedback. My polyquatz-7 active content is 20%. I think it is reasonable right?

About dipropylene glycols, Yes I know it will cause thinning. But I have tried this, and the salt thickening effect is great enough to achieve the viscosity i desired. The reason i put dipropylene glycol is for plasticizer/enhance the fragrance since it is crucial in my market (we prefer strong aroma). I hope with this dipropylene glycol addition, the fragrance will linger on skin for longer time even after rinse-off. What do you think?

Thanks so much

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@MetalizeMerz do you think i need to remove either 1 of it, or both? Actually i can remove both, because i’m not trying to achieve crystal clear product. But i just want them both to be in my ingredients as they work as good solubilizer and superfatting agent.

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@PhilGeis thanks so much! this is really helpful calculator I will try to make this buffer and do some trial and error. 

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@Perry thanks for the link. I never use buffer before, and it seems its not necessary in my shampoo case, because i tested the yellow product pH is still the same around 5.0-5.5

I’m suspecting my color change is because of chlorine. I rinsed the empty bottle with 200ppm chlorine. Maybe I need to rinse it once again with distilled water to remove the residue of chlorine which I’m suspecting it as the color change cause.

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@Perry hi Perry thanks for your reply. I don’t have accurate pH meter so I use litmus paper to check the pH. Although the color really changed a lot, from white to yellow/greenish olive, but the pH remains around 5.0-5.5. 
However, I still want to add buffer solution, just in case in period 1 year after when there is pH drift, it will be safe with that buffer.

Can you teach me how to make easy buffer solution?
Is 0.2% sodium citrate will work, and at what pH will it maintain the product?

Thank you and looking forward for your advise 

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@chemicalmatt
Thank you. I will add 0.5% for EDTA then since its pretty useful . 
Btw, what is hydrotrope synergy? Is it to make the surfactant more soluble and also to increase stability to avoid separation?

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@Pattsi
At my current stage, I usually buy from online or local small suppliers. Thats why the choice for raw material are very limited. As for SLS I couldn’t find any. Most are SLES either in paste or needle/solid form. And so far, this is the cheapest anionic surfactant.

I guess SLS is no longer available here. (or perhaps I have to buy in huge quantity from the factory directly)..

Thanks

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@Benz3ne Thank you so much, this is a great insight for me. I always learned to formulate personal care, so I have no idea when facing ceramic instead of skin . And again, yes 7% is what i usually use for hand wash. I really have no idea how much surfactant is needed to clean a floor.

By the way, can you help further?
1. Do you think SLES is too good for floor/dish cleaner? (I don’t know what anionic surfactant is cheaper than SLES for now…). In fact LABSA (Linear Alkylbenzene sulfonate here cost 20% more than SLES). But if LABSA has double the power cleaning than SLES, than I guess its worth to replace the SLES. 

2. Why do I have to add CAPB? I’m afraid it will only add to the cost. As far as i know, CAPB help bring mildness when combined with SLES. But here we are dealing with plates, and ceramics surface, so CAPB is not necessary right? And based on my experience, SLES itself can thicken well with salt, even without addition of CAPB.
Please correct me if I’m wrong.

3. Do you have recommendation for EDTA input to be used on ceramic/plates? I usually use 0.2%-0.5% for handwash. Is there any bad effect if I added it so much more (lets say 1-2%)?

Thank you again @Benz3ne. I know it sounds weird, but my purpose here is to reduce the cost for some facilities that need daily cleaning. I have no intention to commercialize this product, because I know the competition is just crazy cheap already

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@chemicalmatt hi, i was reading this post and want to ask your opinion. I’m in Indonesia and i believe it has hard water problem.

1. My handwash formulation always use 0.2% disodium edta. Do you think this is enough?

2. I always thought 0.2% will be enough to boost preservative efficacy. Apart from that I have no idea what benefit it bring.

3. Do you prefer tetrasodium edta over disodium edta?

Thank you

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@PhilGeis
Thank you. I don’t mean to make a blend of preservative and store it. I explained it wrong, sorry.
What i meant is, instead of using a broad spectrum preservatives from some company (like optiphen, germal plus, and other) which is expensive and hard to source it in my region, I’m thinking of using singular preservatives such phenoxyethanol for bactericidal, and then also using potassium sorbate for the fungicidal, hoping it will be broad spectrum enough.

Do you think there will be incompatibility with this approach?

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@Pharma Thank you. I just know now that it possibly contain undisclosed additives, or impurities. I’ll be more selective and careful since many small suppliers won’t provide me with any data…

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@Bill_Toge Thank you. I use immersive hand blender. Is this not high-shear enough and the cause of my grainy looking appearance?

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@Pattsi Yes, it is actually, but I just don’t want to mention the brand name (i’m worried it will be problem..)

For the butter product, IPCS recommends to have 12-15% oil (but butter not more than 10% as it may affect the consistency during hot and cold weather).

This is their vanilla body butter range, and as I have shown in the attached photo, its very glossy, shiny and smooth. Very good and appealing appearance.

I had tried to reduce aeration by pouring it while hot/in liquid form. When it cool down, it is much better, however I still cannot get that gloss and shiny effect.

In fact, here is what make me confuse me more:
(Please see my newest photo again here).
in my body butter, I can see from the surface of my butter its like many small dots (looks like small grain), which look not smooth. However when i dip and take with my fingers, I can see the inside of my butter is very well smooth and shiny.

-I’m suspecting if some materials from my formula floats to the top? 
-My second guess, are the oils that I use have problem in their polarity? (When i mix all of my oil, it won’t dissolve as one. It separates like water and oil, although all of these actually are oils. 

Do you think my combination of oil is just fine?

Thank you so much

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@Graillotion Thank you, hope to hear your insight
My benchmark ingredients INCI is as below:

Aqua, Butyrospermum Parkii (Shea) Butter, Glycerin, Glycine Soja (Soybean) Oil, Cetearyl Alcohol, Glyceryl Stearate, PEG-100 Stearate, C12-15 Alkyl Benzoate, Theobroma Cacao (Cocoa) Seed Butter, Ethylhexyl Palmitate, Parfum/Fragrance, Bertholletia Excelsa Seed Oil, Dimethicone, Sesamun Indicum (Sesame) Seed Oil, Orbygnya Oleifera Seed Oil, Cera Alba/Beeswax, Caprylyl Glycol, Phenoxyethanol, Xanthan Gum, Benzyl Salicylate, Coumarin, Disodium EDTA, Tocopherol, Sodium Hydroxide, Vanilla Planifolia Fruit Extract, Citric Acid, Caramel, C1 9140/Yellow5 

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@ngarayeva001 thank you, i will try this. I agree, probably i will not need lechithin, soybean oil, dpg, and beeswax. But why remove stearic acid? i need butter consistency (not cream).  

Do you think the right photo use more oil which give that gloss and shiny appearance? my total oil is around 12% right now

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@helenhelen thank you, yes mine has air trapped inside. I think i poured it too cold, so it thickens already. I should have pour it while its warm and liquid. Anyway, its more about that. I really want that right photo gloss, shiny, smooth appearance 

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@crillz I use dimethicone already at 1%. What i meant is dimethiconol. the right photo has dimethiconol in its ingredient although im not sure if it will really give big impact to the gloss appearance.

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@Pattsi Sorry for the ambiguous photo. The right one is actually very popular bodybutter. Yes I know it seems there is like oil separation, and probably this is because I have kept it for around 1 year. But when i bought it, its really shiny glossy and smooth.