[Stanley]

@mariamu96
Goodness, I have friends that would relax their coily hair every month.  Glad you embrace your natural hair…

[Stanley]

I sort of thought the same.   :

There are definitely people that have used chemical relaxers for more than 20-30 years who haven’t been identified as to have uterine cancer. She may be a novel case.

How many people actually eat ice cream near sharks?   :smirk:

[Stanley]

I would have to agree with @Paprik.  If you are serious about the creating a good product you need proper instrumentation to have accuracy.  DIY stuff and hand held alternatives are nice for  “quick and dirty” results but not for final and reliable information.  There are as many different probes for as many different mediums.

[Stanley]

this is the kit.  it is being used to help make different tones.  so i assume using blue foundation is still not a common practice.

[Stanley]

I actually remember Micky Dolenz and the Monkees. Lots of actor/actresses were forced to straighten their beautiful curIs.  I am done. Caucasian can be straighten it was mentioned earlier in this thread.  I feel myself wanting to go down a pathway that will fall on deaf ears since maintain your expert status in application of said product but still getting the end result of straight hair.  I am done.

[Stanley]

I think it is a cool idea but the “blue” foundation was something new to me.  I not sure what the common practice outside of my own experience with foundations which did not include indigo/blue coloring.  Needless to say me and this person went round and round about the use of blue on skin tones.

[Stanley]

I am going to be blunt and honest….
Your wife needs to see a BEAUTICIAN for an analysis for her hair type and what could be done.   

At this point, either salon that caters to Black or White patrons would be a place to start.  From everything you have stated you are not having luck please see a professional that does hair before your wife goes bald. Double processing hair with different chemicals will only damage the hair.  Yes there are the DIY Caucasian Folks on youtube explaining how easy it is to use a Organic Root Stimulator (ORS) relaxer but there is a technique to its application.  Their product are meant for a population of people that burn easily or the texture of hair is easy to chemically straighten.  Ladies in my family would not use ORS because of this. Application is taught in cosmetology school.  Your application could be suspect the length of time could be suspect-sometimes the stylist will “massage” the hair to make sure it is straightening.  These “tribal knowledge” bits that stylist do.

As chemists- yes we can explain the science but a beautician actually sees every day people will kinds of hair and issues.  Stop doing this DIY fix  and see a hair professional.

[Stanley]

what is the viscosity of your product at 0.8% of HEC? How much salt are you adding with 70% SLES and 30% betaine?

[Stanley]

This is normal for Vitamin C products because it is being oxidized. 

[Stanley]

@”Dr Catherine Pratt” 

That is what I thought!  It was rather interesting project. 

[Stanley]

@MarkBroussard

(1)   A beauty product line targeted toward male genitals

(2)   An all-natural vaginal and anal bleach/whitening product.  And a companion cream that tightens the vagina

I don’t consider these items wacky.  As the population because more free and accepting of sexuality… items will become more popular. bleaching creams have been popular in different segments of the population for years so why not brighten where the sun don’t shine.. I have been asked to work on these items to when I was freelancing for an adult company….

Something very wacky… creating a formula that would would bring a man to a state of attention in 10 minutes or less……This was going to be sold overseas.

A lip buzzer balm for the sensitive female part…..

[Stanley]

@Pattsi Thanks for the information.  Would the insulin by Civica be one of the insulins that will be hitting the US market soon?  

[Stanley]

@Syl
Thank you so much! Perhaps we can continue this conversation outside of the group if you don’t mind.  I would definitely like the guide. I am involve in the Diabetic community.  I am familiar with Ca and Gavin Newsom.  I can’t say that I really trust his motives or the people that are working on him on this. He has faced recall twice. :#   

I believe you can send me an DM to my inbox and we can further the conversation.  thanks!

[Stanley]

@Syl
Yes I know insulin is a Canadian discovery.  Often tell people if it wasn’t purified it wouldn’t be as useful so make sure you include all 4 scientist!  I do believe they discover was when noticed in dogs.

[Stanley]

Great question…
Yes, elderly, noninsured and people who are insured (depending on their plan).  There is alot that goes into actual pricing. 

Plenty of articles of the tangled web of insulin pricing/gouging and the pharmaceutical lobbyists that try to keep the prices high. Have you noticed the high percentage of Pharma execs transitioning into Gov’t positions?   

The 3 main insulin manufacturers of insulin have cornered  90% of the global market so they can price it anyway they want with little competition.  This is why people are looking at biosimiliar insulin to save the day.  I just question if all the clearances will be done or is this  rush to market for a product people cant live without…

[Stanley]

@Pharma
Thanks for responding….
The price for a vial of insulin ranges from $50 to over $1,000, and a pack of pens ranges from $45 to over $600. The prices may vary ( not much) if you have insurance too.  I use to have insurance where I was getting $35 for 5 pens.  Don’t work there anymore…..

The top 3 insulin companies are now offering $35 vouchers for insulin.  When the fever dies down this will go away again.  They do this with other drugs from time to time….

[Stanley]

Thank you everybody for the answers! 

There are only 3 companies that are responsible for all the mass majority of the world’s supply of insulin.  California and a “diabetic organization” are both saying they will sponsor their own insulin.  I was familiar with yeast and recombinant technology being used.
When news like this hits the diabetic world it runs like wild fire without cautious review of what is being said…everybody will say its a cure!!! This group makes it sound like they were able to pull off new insulin in a few years with this pharma company much like the covid vaccine (yes another fascinating topic).  I am being skeptical.

Biosimiliar insulin is “A biosimilar product is a biologic product that is approved based on demonstrating that it is highly similar to an FDA‐approved biologic product, known as a reference product, and has no clinically meaningful differences in terms of safety and effectiveness from the reference product. Only minor differences in clinically inactive components are allowable in biosimilar products.”

[Stanley]

@MarkBroussard

“The company was acquired by SC Johnson and it then became SC Johnson’s responsibility regarding ensuring that the marketing language was accurate.”

This is what I am talking about where were the principles at SC Johnson when this was purchased?  They just took everything at “face value.”  I am sure SC Johnson could have “altered” either the marketing strategy or the RM to achieve the same goal.  At my company, we thoroughly  analyze outside formulas and even old formulas to make sure they represent the claims.  I remember having “deep discussions” with marketing/customers on what could they say in their claims versus the raw materials.

Depending on how stealthy the research is on the defendant side…I think they have a fighting chase at beating this because but of the subjective nature of some of the information.  A lot of the same raw materials are used in other industries.  

[Stanley]

Moving further back in the food chain…..

What about the actual CM or company that manufactured these products?  Where were the PD/chemists and what were they advice to formulate?  Were the founders informed these were questionable ingredients and they still carried on?  I am still reading the lawsuit -currently on page 27- everything is about the marketing/advertising.  There are some RM’s that could be up for debate as being natural or synthetic to some folks.  I have had these discussion with colleagues.  

Public perception/Marketing Department perception on what is natural, clean beauty any other new trend is very subjectable. 

In the article it referenced the US Department of agriculture Draft Guidance Decision Tree for classification of materials.  Was this guide implemented?

[Stanley]

You questions are best suited for a hair stylist.  They will be able to judge the condition of wife’s hair and determine the best course of action.  I am only giving you a very generic POV based on experience.  I am sure she looks very beautiful with her curls!

I will do my best.  4b-4c hair is more course therefore require stronger chemical treatment.  Please note “course” has different meanings in different ethnic groups.  Not knowing your wife’s hair knowledge and application technique she may damage her hair using this product or any other chemical based product.  This product can be used on other patterns of hair, again I would be concerned with the skill level of the person. Relaxers should normally be applied on to untreated or new growth.  When her hair has “new growth”  this portion will need to be processed only… Not the whole head… This is why I suggest talking to a hairstylist.    I did find a video on you tube of a guy using the ORS relaxer.  

There are a plethora of videos on You tube about straightening hair with similar curl pattern.   

Mens PERMENANT Hair Straightening! [AT HOME] - YouTube
 
Help with application tips.
 RELAXER ROUTINE: HOW I RELAX MY HAIR | RELAXED HAIR - YouTube

The Brazilian Blowout/Keratin Smoothing was popular a few years ago.  It can be pricey.  Then there was a Japanese treatment too.
 Keratin Smoothing / Straightening Treatment On Men’s Hair | Review - YouTube

Just an article
https://wekompare.com/chemical-hair-straighteners

Hope this helps…

[Stanley]

thank you kindly.. being familiar with the topic of diabetes and how myths are so prevalent.  I like to do myth busting where needed.  

[Stanley]

Okay!!!

I am sure she look beautiful with her curls… Curls for all races are popular now! I how it is to want something too….

I assume my next question would be why is she choosing to use this product that is mainly used on 4b-4c (4z) curl pattern?  There are other products that might be better suited for her hair pattern which would yield the desired look.  If she has used similar products previously and not allowed enough time to pass between treatments she might be damaging her hair and it will fall out. 

To answer your question there shouldn’t be a problem. You don’t want the hair clean because the reasons stated above.  Plus you don’t want to scratch the scalp 3-4 days before a treatment.  Women have had their scalps burned while having this treatment. The only thing you can do is wash it out and wait approx. a month for reapplication.  There will be sores in the scalp too.

The best thing I would advise is talk to a hair dresser that familiar with your wife’s hair pattern on her “straightening” options.  If she is dead set on doing a relaxer than consult with an African American hairstylist that is familiar with doing relaxers (this may depend on where you are located in the USA too) …  A person that is skilled with doing a relaxer will know how to “work” the cream on to the hair and “massage” despite it being “dirty” or with silicone.  I must caution that relaxers are super harsh chemical treatments that can really do damage if they are not applied correctly in a certain amount of time and rinsed.  Relaxers are roughly pH >10. Worse comes to worse you can go to a cosmetology school and have a student do the treatment with a teacher at a cut price. 
I hope this helps…

[Stanley]

ORS — I am assuming stands for the brand of relaxer-Organic Root Stimultor.  This is a brand.  Back in the old days you had Revlon relaxers as well as Optimum and TCB relaxers.  Relaxers are normally used by those that have 4B-4C as experienced in the African American community.  I am not saying other ethnic groups or hair patterns could not used the product.- please correct me if I have made too many assumptions….  

The directions are more for the scalp than it is for the hair.  Using a relaxer is a harsh chemical treatment that can produce sores on the scalp and seriously damage the hair.  Your hair and scalp produce natural oils that help protect the skin and hair from the harmful chemicals of a relaxer. If you wash your hair too soon before a relaxer it opens the pores of the scalp and removes the natural protective oils, which can lead to burning your scalp and hair. Actually you shouldn’t wash your hair less than 3-4 days before a treatment.

[Stanley]

I hate to beat a dead horse on this subject but this has popped its head again on my radar….

A well known and influential Diabetic group (with celebrity influences)  has it on their website that Diabetes does cause hair loss due to the hair follicle being starved of blood flow etc.  I have done some research on the subject and asked previous on this group if anybody has heard of this or know where they are getting this group maybe getting this information.  I have asked the group for references or documents on the subject and have been ignored.  I am concerned about the misinformation of this because other people are now spreading this as a for the reason why there is hair loss on the head. Nobody knows where the information originated from in this version.  I am thinking this may be in medical magazines versus personal care product sources or studies.  Does anybody know how this may have gotten started or any documentation?

[Stanley]

Use Cocoamide mipa or something similar.  Lower or remove Decyl glucoside and use just for bubble effect. Choose different surfactants.