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@Perry Mmm very interesting stuff, I know a lot of the success of olaplex is the marketing, i think once i can get my hand on some again I might try and rig up some crude experiments and see if i can put it to the test. 

@MarkBroussard Do you know if Glyoxilic Acid is something you could put in a regular condition or treatment or something like that at a lower level to help with smoothing without having an expensive in salon treatment like the Brazilian blowouts etc

@chemicalmatt what does reducing cystine disulfide links do exactly? Wouldnt that make the hair more fragile rather than conditioning or “strengthening” it? 

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@Perry

I thought the olaplex at least had some kind of ability to temporarily re-link broken disulfide bonds in the hair as long a you were using the product continuously? 

With the brazilian blowout treatments etc it seems like they all use formaldehyde in them, seeing as all the other ingredients seem to just be various types of conditioning agents etc i assuming the formaldehyde is the ingredient that is making the difference here? What exactly does this stuff do the the hair?

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Perfect, thank you all 

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@ketchito thank you again!

When you say a good surfactant system to remove polyquats, would that rely mostly on sulfates like sls? Or would it be possible with others as long as they are prevalent in adequate amounts? 

What exactly is microemultion? (pardon my ignorance). I see pretty much all mainstream leave in serums that i have looked into use something like a mix of dimethicone (or dimethiconol), cyclohexasiloxane. Would they be using these neutral silicones purely for cost effectiveness do you think?

In terms of a pre-shampoo I was wanting something more re-fattening and conditioning, if not silicones what do you think would be worthwhile in something like that? 
It seems like a lot of coconut/sunflower oil plus butters like shea are popular but i’m unsure about what to use in terms of more “cosmetic” ingredients. Would a product like this really be that effective if the hair is full of silicones coating it anyway?

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@ketchito indeed, very cohesive info there thank you very much!

With that said, would I then be best to put a combination of Polyquat and neutral silicones in the shampoo and then ionic silicone in the conditioner seeing as they perform best in those respective categories? 

What would you say would work best also in a leave in serum and a pre-shampoo treatment? 

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@ketchito I guess I mean in their nature, I thought this would relate directly to their tendency to build up on the hair but I am probably misunderstanding the fundamentals (of which I don’t know a lot). 
What would you say the difference is between say Dimethiconol, Dimeticone, and Amodimethicone?
Are they more likely to build up in that order would you say or am I understanding wrong?  

Is there any point in using polyquats then if you are using silicones? Do they have any benefits at all?

I thought they were just used most of the time to replace silicones since cones have been vilified for so long now but again I am probably off the mark here. 

 

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@ketchito @ngarayeva001 thank you both for your feedback

I guess my main question is, if i am using a sulfate free sufractant blend (SLMI, CAPB just for example), would something like this be strong enough to remove silicones from the hair and prevent the “build-up” effect with continued use?

Let’s say for example something not as heavy as dimethicolnol but heavier than amodimethicone which I guess would be something like dimethicone? 

Obviously I would like to get away with the best performing silicones as possible but without the possibility of too much accumulation on the hair and it seems to me that most brands that use quite a lot of silicones in their products tend to have SLS as their primary surfactant and i’m not sure whether this is due to cost effectiveness or if it is the only good option for removing the silicones they use. 

Cheers 

p.s @ngarayeva001 what is d5? 

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@Pharma thanks again for the info, sounds like a very interesting approach and if i can get my hands on some i will have to give it a try, plus the meat glue 

Cheers!

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@pattsi  Good way to get return customers too i guess.

So what happens exactly do the molecules just fall from the hair after a few shampoos and then the hair is essentially naked again with no disulfide bonds holding everything together? 

It looks like the the patented ingredient is in all their products so i guess you have to keep using it regularly for the positive effects 

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@Pharma

I had seen that link and was what kind of piqued my interest.

Thanks for the info, a little over my head I think but i think i get the gist of it.

Cheers!

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I might piggy back off this also and ask, if a chemist were to make a shampoo/conditioner formulation etc for somebody, how difficult is it once you have the formulation and everything to then go ahead yourself and start making it? 
Obviously equipment and facilities is needed but do clients tend take over at this point or does it more often just end up in the hands of a developer/distributor to handle the rest in terms of mixing/manufacturing and sending out?  

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@Perry @ngarayeva001
thanks for the clarification, i thought this may have possibly been the case. Might have to just stick with Polyquaternium 10 or 7, I keep getting conflicting info of which of these is less likely to build up, what is your opinion?

Also what about the use of Steramidopropyl Dimethylamine and Behentrimonium Methosulfate in a conditioner? They seem to be touted often as the new wave on conditioners and i’m just wondering if it’s all hype or if theres and legitimacy to the claims.  

Perhaps if i use the polyquat in the shampoo then i could just use these in the conditioner? 

Cheers

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@Perry The human condition maybe?

Peoples lack of critical thinking combined with a tendency to act based on fear with an inclination to blindly follow the pack or used preconceived notions as a blanket measure across all aspects of their beliefs and practices? Who knows really… 

Maybe we just like to be entertained!

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@ozgirl @Perry 

Yeah likely story, seems the more I delve into the cosmetic industry the more the whole thing seems a farce. The fear-mongers are spreading disinformation at a level even the Russians would be impressed with!   

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@Perry Cheers mate! 

Whats with the stigma of fragrances being more irritating? I thought for sure the answer was going to be essential oils…

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Thanks @Perry 

Do you know how to actually order product from either of these places? The websites seem to to have a lot of info but i’m not sure how to actually purchase anything, do i have to email? 

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Dense foam with no large bubbles is kind of what i’m after actually so that sounds good.  

What do the refatenning agents and cationic polymers do exactly? 

Have you also had any experience with Sodium Laurlyglucosides hydroxypropylsulfaonate/ Lauramidopropyl betaine, maybe this could be an option also?

Cheers!

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Unfortunately it doesn’t look like I can find Iselux anywhere in Australia, maybe I could try to find the individual components separately and make something similar? 

Aqua (and) Sodium Lauroyl Methyl Isethionate (and) Cocamidopropyl Betaine (and) Sodium Methyl Oleoyl Taurate (and) Lauryl Glucoside (and) Coco-Glucoside

What kind of ratios would you recommend to start off with if I tried to formulate myself? 

I so hope that once I find a good formulation that I can market and sell to the public, it wont be only for personal use so I don’t mind spending some time and money towards getting the desired results. 

Thank you!

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Or perhaps something like Decyl Glucoside?

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@letsalcido @Perry

Seems I do indeed do have fundamental misunderstanding of this issue, thank you both for clearing that up for me, i’m sorry my comment was so misguided but I am really knew to this and have no experience at all in anything chemistry related so thank you for bearing with me. 

I guess my main objectives in my goal are to have a product that reacts differently (has a different ‘feel’) than a regular cleanser to give a consumer experience of something that isn’t as ‘harsh” as a run of the mill shampoo, something a bit more luxurious I guess you could say. 
But also something that performs in that was also, so cleansing enough that it leaves the hair feeling clean but isn’t stripping it bare and also has enough conditioning/reparative elements that you could forgo conditioning.

And i guess still as little synthetic intervention as possible because I would still like it try and market it as still a mostly ‘naturally derived’ type product, within reason of course. If it possible to formulate something like this that is also safe (not a treatment for but just safe or neutral) for skin conditions such a dermatitis/eczema that would be a bonus too. 

What do you guys think I should be looking into? Sodium Lauroyl Lactylate seem to be catching my eye at the moment but obviously i know nothing really haha.

Thank you again!