PhilGeis
Forum Replies Created
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Sorbate would not suffer a different fate than benzoate. Prefr benzoate due to stability and general use in many shampoos largely due to synergized efficacy with surfactants - and my experience. I like it with Kathon but i know that bothers some folks
DHA is merely another organic acid.
I’m not so familair with Phenylpropyl - it’s not in ester worry but also not broad spectrum.
Fungi are very rare contaminants of shampoos. Phenoxy works well with ethylhexylglycerine - good idea. Maybe those with benzoate and EDTA.Whatever you do, let us know how it fares in challenge.
Good luck!! I’d say Semper Fi - but I was just RA.
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What’s pH?
I’d drop the DHA and sorbate in favor of Benzoate and Gluconolactone as you have EDTA (target 0.1%). The esters are vulnerable to pseudomonad esterases. as pseudomonads are primary risks for shampoos, this is a pretty weak system. What about some benzyl alcohol. -
What is your pH? Suggest you contact supplier for stability concerns. 24 hours is plenty of time for background contamination to grow.
I’d not trust the humblebeeandme combinations. Some are pretty poor.
Suggest you look at preseservative systems used by major marketers.
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All competent labs test for content before performing challenge testing.
Dip sticks are are poor - might tell you if the product is heavily contaminated - that your raw materials are foul, if you making hygiene is foul. They say nothing of preservative efficacy.
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mmatia is confusing content with challenge.
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The test kit tells you NOTHING regarding the preservative - or much else. It might tell you if you screwed up making the product - nothing more.
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Please stop this. Preservation is addressed by challenge testing - organisms are added to determine kill. tbhe test kit merely tries (and not adequately) to determine if your product is contaminated
Tnhe at home test is useless for preservation assessment and pretty poor for anything but perhaps water. -
formulation - and that is typically considred in a highly aqueous product context.
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Dip slides are poor - no neutralization of preservative, product obscuring potential growth and product has to be pretty bad for it to show growth. If you see contamination, it is a signal your prob should not be making cosmetics with your system. No growth is meaningless - you’ll still need to test at a qualified lab.
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None. You need to send it to a competent lab.
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Thanks Perry. Now I see!!
I emailed Tyger with the question. Will let you know what they say. -
Pharma - “natural” phenoxyethanol. Please elaborate.
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Honysuckle extract? Good grief.
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Pharma - not familair with the Velsan ether.
undecylenates - not much experience there. Think you know i’m an old tradtional guy so had a lot of preservastives focused on fungi. I do understand it’s more of a fungistat than -cide.
My biggest frustration is the great number of effectively useless combinations marketed as “broad spectrum”, wide pH range , “nartural, blah blah: set up to mislead well-intentioned folks like domicanica.
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I’d not use with sorbate. No purpose with two organic acids and the benzoic acid/surfactant phenomenon is not found with sorbic acid.
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Pharma - think useless as its too prone to pH (>7) and microbial esterases and it’s a common “preservative” in so many of the recalls in US. And it’s not that hot when it’s stable.
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Would never use spectrstat - combination of weak materials. Glyceryl caprylate is fairly useless.
In your context, use Nabenzoate - esp. in the body wash. The pH is ok and you’ll enjoy the surfactant-benzoic acid combined efficacy. You’ll still need something for Gram neg bacteria - maybe benzyl alcohol. Pent or Hex glycol may extend efficacy.And a chelator - esp. EDTA.
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And NO preservative is “broad spectrum” that is cynical supplier hype.
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The issue is that most here do not know if their preservative system works, even if they run challenge tests. Whether USP, EP, ASTM ISO, NONE is validated for either their primary purpose (in use protection) or manufacturing protection.
The only way to know for sure is in-use evaluation and challenge methods that attempt validation to in use risk.Such alternaitve systems are the clear problem children identified in recalls and by the US FDA as putting consumers at risk.
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what is your “policy” - preservatives you will and will not use
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Yes - and it is poor by design. What is your pH?
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Then use HDPE.
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Neither is very effective.
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Follow supplier’s choice for raw material storage. What are the drums - are they lined?