PhilGeis
Forum Replies Created
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Pattsi said:@MarkBroussard - No way!!!! Me too, thought I was alone.@PhilGeis - Sadly DMDM is dead now. It’s a guess game what next. When mass brands replace controversial ingredient I have no choice but to follow suit which is hard on us small brand. Totally BS.
A lot of global folks dropped the formaldehyde releasers when Japan refused to soften the draconion warning. China and EWG effectively teamed up to bully J&J out of Quat 15 for its baby shampoo 10 or so years ago. FDA and SCCS/EU/CIR still find ’em safe but i understand you point.
The idiotic suit completely ignores the real risk - microbial contamination - in place of its imaginary formaldehyde risk. -
Appreciate your effort and concerns. NO preservative is effectively broad spectrum - that is marketing hype. Even with the traditional materials parabens Kathon etc - you’ll need a second and if you go the alternative/natural route you’ll need even more. Look at labels of similar products from major manufacturers e.g. P&G, J&J, Unilever, Estee, Avon.
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Thanks Pattsi - J&J cstarted this some time back - took quat 15 out of their baby shampoo after many decades and appropriate safety assessment.
such total BS - https://www.cfs.gov.hk/english/multimedia/multimedia_pub/multimedia_pub_fsf_06_01.html
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Please recall the definition of drug - a produict “intended for use in the diagnosis, cure, mitigation, treatment, or prevention of disease”.
Eczema in the name shows intent.
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Pattsi - arghhhh! Can you provide the link?
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7-8 - the organic acids are +/- useless. Unless you can qualify your preservative system - esp. to ISO 11930 critetia - please do not attempt a mascarsa.
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With benzalkonium Cl, this is a antimicrobial handsoap. Be aware it will be a drug in the US.
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What is your pH?
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Cosmetics are subject to both FPLA and FD&C legislation. As Mark noted, INCI (as CTFA dictionary) is the primary guidance for ingredient labeling. Please look at the actual regulation 21CFR 701.3 Designation of Ingredients https://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/retrieveECFR?gp=&SID=79073513f7ba6a05126c6da0aa85c460&r=PART&n=21y7.0.1.2.11#se21.7.701_13
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AbbasMo said:
I use From sodium benzoate and potassium sorbate, 0.2% each of them. Is it enough?
That is clearly not enough. Those are not enough vs pseudomonads that can cause very serious eye infections. Please look at labels of major marketers e.g. Estee Lauder, Cover Girl
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My advice - deliver alternative/”natural” formulas with caution that these may not perform as well as traditional systems.
Background - these kinds of systems have driven micro recalls from a few per year ~2000 to levels not seen since the 1960’s and 70’s - 2017’s were the most I recall in my 40 year career. With this level of failure in making - they’re prob worse Vin use. irtually all were alternative natural etc. preservative and FDA even published an article cocnering the issue.
The few that involved me after the fact all passed in stability with USP 51. -
I appreciate your effort. Did you use USP 51 as the preservatuve test? What is your packaging? Do you also produce the product.
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Did you confirm efficacy of your system?
Euxyl K712 is not an esp effective preservative system and fairly useless at ~ neutral and higher.
Especially for very young children and other potentially compromised users- suggest folks subordinate their eco/natural/sustainable sentiments to efficacy and don;t buy the boiler plate “broad spectrum”.
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Mark is spot on - thatn is a garbage, green-salad preservative system. Preservative(s) is the ONLY ingredient used exclusively for safety - prevent contamination in use. Please don’t let your marketing objective corrupt its purpose.
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abierose said:@Henry @MarkBroussard Or you could use Sea Salt and market it for its “beneficial” uses in hair and skin products…. ???? A quick Google search shows some people are already working this angle…
Good point - your choice - which bunch of gullible folks will be your target.
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Good grief
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I’d be reactive in this. If it did come up - I’d 1st try to find and eliminate the bug from raws/the system. Your idea is prob a good one.
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That’s on a product ingredient label?
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Agree - don’t play the “natural preservatives” game. They’;re typically not natural and less safe because they don’t work - - esp. the absurd one you mentioned.
Spray might be a better term than aerosol - it isn’t pressurized.
Look at similar products from big companies. I’ve used formaldehyde releaser-based systems but those have bad press. Try glycols/benzyl alcohol/maybe organic acid if pH works/edta. -
Relevant recall in 2016
Product Description:
Castile Soap Towelette (SKU T-3112-1S and SKU T-30120-1S
Reason for Recall:
Product is contaminated with Nesterenkonia lacusekhoensis.
Product Quantity:
7,538,000 packets
Recall Number:
F-0805-2016
Code Information:
SKU: T-3112-15: 60228, 60503, 60768, 61207, 60229, 60504, 60786, 61208, 60230, 60505, 60787, 61390, 60324, 60506, 60788, 61521, 60325, 60521, 60942, 61522, 60326, 60522, 60943, 61691, 60327, 60523, 61102, 60328, 60767, 61103 SKU: T-3012-15: 60221, 60524, 60865, 61436, 61593
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the salt is soluble
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use sodium salt
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I know it’s going to be an extremely rare event - but you asked
Bhathena, Z., Barchha, N. and Sivaram, T.K., Prevalence of Moderately Halophytic Aerobic Gram Positive Cocci in Bath Soap Bars with Special Reference to Nesterenkonia Species.
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“According to EWG..” is certain to preceed total BS. CNN - same thing.
It is absolutely absurd to claim companies add PFAS. I’m sure P&G et al. are testing their products and will respond as an industry with risk assessment.Thanks for the article, jemolian. ppb to low ppm levels.
Sen Collins - sponsor of the bill and the former Collins/Feinstein bill to update regulation of cosmetics went nowhere is apparently posturing. I spoke to her COS re. that bill - asking why. She offered the Wen non-controversy. Politicians need drama.