PhilGeis
Forum Replies Created
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Assume you’re bnpt in US.
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You need something of reliable efficacy versus Gram negative bacteria. Organic acids are not at any pH.
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Probiotic survival at titer is a major issue for any application. In a (preserved) cosmetic, it’s problematic.
Advantage? Assuming yoy’ll not pusruse some measyrable endpoint - sales hype. -
“Natural” is as meaningless/false as many such claimed combinations are “broad spectrum”. Geogard ultra is prob on eof the worst. Please forget it.
Organic acid(s)/Benzyl alcohol/Chelator at your pH may work. Benzyl should be 5000+ppm plus. Run a PET and stability.
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Good grief.
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It’ll be on msds
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No - it’s also supplied at ~10%
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Abdullah said:@ozgirl no i didn’t read the MSDS of formalin because our local suppliers don’t provide those materials.
Thanks for the file.
Do not use any material whose supplier offers no MSDS. Here;s an msds https://www.mchem.co.nz/site/mchem/MSDS/FORMALIN%2037%20PERCENT%20MSDS.PDF
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Bill_Toge
That closely related compounds have no efficacy is no proof, strong or otherwise) of bacterial “attempt to ingest” as some controlling mechanism. Where are the compelling data?
Formaldehyde releasers maintain 100-200 ppm formaldehyde - an effective level with or without bacteria. One can can temporarily recued that level by dialysis and it will be reestablished in a day or so.
Parabens are sensitive to esterases - why so poorly effective vs. Gram negative that often proceed to degrade the rest of the molecule. These are extracellular - as are esterases in skin that also degrade the parabens. -
If you’re in US, all ingredients must be on the TSCA inventory. Many cosmetic ingrediencs are not.
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Process issues are best detected by sampling surfaces and intermediates during process - not finished product afterward.
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Not aware it has a EPA pesticide registration but can be a viable preservative functionally. Consider your support for “solvent” if EPA challenges.
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Eugene said:Hello! I buy ready to use preservative mix (sodium benzoate & potassium sorbate) on naturallythinking.com. I would like to make the mix by myself. Can you please suggest right percentage of water/benzoate/sorbate ?
Thank you!If that’s all (and two organic acids - neither of which is likely natural) is prob unnecessary duplication. In any case, it’s a very poor system. Suggest ~3000 ppm of either with pH adjusted appropriately and something to impact Gram neg bacteria.
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ketchito said:Thank you @PhilGeis, I always appreciate your comments! (I’ve seen terrible thing when workers were manipulating enzymes indeed). Just in case, by safer alternatives I meant that formaldehyde releasers are safer alternatives than formaldehyde
Appreciate your comments and perspective - including this point.
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Bill_Toge said:it releases formaldehyde when microbes attempt to ingest it, in the same way that parabens release alcohols when microbes attempt to ingest them
Can you provide the data for these 2 phenomena?
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“free” as addressed in regulation (EU) would be all of it
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sensitization.
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Not aware it is highly regulated, esp for micro (tho’ regulatory language always excessive). Think just colifom/E. coli. - https://www.accessdata.fda.gov/scripts/cdrh/cfdocs/cfcfr/CFRSearch.cfm?fr=165.110
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prob just the formaldehyde
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Think enzymes are the greatest manufacturing risk I’ve seen
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ketchito said:In my experience visiting some plants here in Latin America, I found that both the person who weights the ingredients and the manufacturer were constantly exposed to some amounts of formaldehyde gas when manipulating large amounts of formalin (not that the ingredient itself is to blame for this), and since we have well performing and safer alternatives (formaldehyde-releasers), and especially in places where there’s low survailance over manufacturing sites and practices, wouldn’t the decission from Europe especifically about formaldehyde make some sense?
I am aware of the broader use of formaldehyde (formalin) in Latin America - not sure some could even make clean products without it. But ‘m not with you on this. Manufacturing risks are established by many ingredients and practices - caustics, HCl, heat, ozone, unprotected belts, pinch points, inappropriate tank entry, failed lock out, etc. Failure in worker safety should be addressed by PPE, safety procedures, etc.
Banning formaldehyde Europe fixes none of that. We sure do not have “safer alternatives” than releasers as preservatives. -
You can’t expect the preservative to resolve a contaminated raw material - esp. water. Water quality is probably the biggest risk for cosmetic manufacturing.
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Folk should be confident their water meets at least finished product specification. The worst contaminants P. aeruginosa and B. cepacia can grow in distilled water to millions per ml - more than enough to overwhelm any preservative - esp. the alternative/naturals
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Banning formaldehyde and lower free formaldehyde in preservation is typical EU bureaucratic excess. This misguided ban merely increases micro risk by eliminating some of the few generally effective preservatives.
FDA typically doesn’t chase useless efforts in this context. Covid is prob irrelevant - cosmetics are under CFSAN not CDER,
It does address the higher levels in some products -https://www.fda.gov/cosmetics/cosmetic-products/hair-smoothing-products-release-formaldehyde-when-heated . AND
https://www.fda.gov/cosmetics/cosmetic-products/nail-care-products