PhilGeis
Forum Replies Created
-
Abdullah said:Pharma said:Maybe, maybe not. Some microbes aren’t visible at way higher amounts, don’t produce neither smell nor gas… just think about yoghurt. You wouldn’t know it’s spoiled milk if you didn’t know what yoghurt actually is.What about mold? At what amount of contamination it can be visible by eyes?
Or the other way, if we can see the mold by eyes, what would be the minimum cfu/g of mold in that product?
You can seemold if it grows sufficiently on the surface. Not sure what you mean by minimum - it’s addressed by the same numerical quality limit.
The concept of cfu is not a good one for mold - mycelial fungi. The cells do not separate so one cfu could represent 19’s-100’s of cells.
-
If ypur stbility samples (passing USP 51) were at significantly higher pH, you would repeat.
-
To the point - for the great majoriy of product types, production with proper controls should deliver products with no detectable microorganisms.
-
You’re correct. Stability (PET) indirectly addresses the chemical stability of the preservative system. Opening/closing/pumping is largely irrelevant to chemical stability - I’m familair with only one preservative that might be sensitive.
The stupidity of PAO takes this to the extreme. - stability doesn’t start until the package is opened. -
titer can be 10E6+ cfu/g with or without a preservative and can offer no product change - or discolor, stink and slime up, break emulsions, swell packages, grow as colonies on and in, etc.
not aware of minimal infective dose - depends on the microbe and application.
-
Think 0.5% phenoxy is enough. The others are marginal - you need something better targeting fungi.
-
really need to establish PET
-
Do not presume you need less due to MIC. You should use a generally effective level in each application.
-
SKII from Procter & Gamble from the early 80’s has a yeast ferment
-
Assume you’re bnpt in US.
-
You need something of reliable efficacy versus Gram negative bacteria. Organic acids are not at any pH.
-
Probiotic survival at titer is a major issue for any application. In a (preserved) cosmetic, it’s problematic.
Advantage? Assuming yoy’ll not pusruse some measyrable endpoint - sales hype. -
“Natural” is as meaningless/false as many such claimed combinations are “broad spectrum”. Geogard ultra is prob on eof the worst. Please forget it.
Organic acid(s)/Benzyl alcohol/Chelator at your pH may work. Benzyl should be 5000+ppm plus. Run a PET and stability.
-
Good grief.
-
It’ll be on msds
-
No - it’s also supplied at ~10%
-
Abdullah said:@ozgirl no i didn’t read the MSDS of formalin because our local suppliers don’t provide those materials.
Thanks for the file.
Do not use any material whose supplier offers no MSDS. Here;s an msds https://www.mchem.co.nz/site/mchem/MSDS/FORMALIN%2037%20PERCENT%20MSDS.PDF
-
Bill_Toge
That closely related compounds have no efficacy is no proof, strong or otherwise) of bacterial “attempt to ingest” as some controlling mechanism. Where are the compelling data?
Formaldehyde releasers maintain 100-200 ppm formaldehyde - an effective level with or without bacteria. One can can temporarily recued that level by dialysis and it will be reestablished in a day or so.
Parabens are sensitive to esterases - why so poorly effective vs. Gram negative that often proceed to degrade the rest of the molecule. These are extracellular - as are esterases in skin that also degrade the parabens. -
If you’re in US, all ingredients must be on the TSCA inventory. Many cosmetic ingrediencs are not.
-
Process issues are best detected by sampling surfaces and intermediates during process - not finished product afterward.
-
Not aware it has a EPA pesticide registration but can be a viable preservative functionally. Consider your support for “solvent” if EPA challenges.
-
Eugene said:Hello! I buy ready to use preservative mix (sodium benzoate & potassium sorbate) on naturallythinking.com. I would like to make the mix by myself. Can you please suggest right percentage of water/benzoate/sorbate ?
Thank you!If that’s all (and two organic acids - neither of which is likely natural) is prob unnecessary duplication. In any case, it’s a very poor system. Suggest ~3000 ppm of either with pH adjusted appropriately and something to impact Gram neg bacteria.
-
ketchito said:Thank you @PhilGeis, I always appreciate your comments! (I’ve seen terrible thing when workers were manipulating enzymes indeed). Just in case, by safer alternatives I meant that formaldehyde releasers are safer alternatives than formaldehyde
Appreciate your comments and perspective - including this point.
-
Bill_Toge said:it releases formaldehyde when microbes attempt to ingest it, in the same way that parabens release alcohols when microbes attempt to ingest them
Can you provide the data for these 2 phenomena?
-
“free” as addressed in regulation (EU) would be all of it