PhilGeis
Forum Replies Created
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CMIT aq solubility is much greater than those - I’d not worry
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Selling on hype.
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Down side?
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Suggest 5 ppm for the CMIT/MIT product. Might check stability - CMIT is unstable with ZPT, another hydoxamic acid-based active. Not aware of data for piroctone.
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Glycerine is not a cosmetic preservative. You’d need ~50% to prevent growth of bacteria and >60% for fungi. It only prevents growth - does not kill as specified in preservative testing. Users common add water to liquid soaps and shampoos - an immediate compromise to glycerine “preservation”.
“Natural” preservation is basically BS.
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What would fail the definition?
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That helps a bit - but still try <1% - highest I use is 0.5% and down to 0.3% can be useful.
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Decide your policy and be prepared to defend. Cosmos and ISO offer some shelter from challenge but nothing to your ethical decisions.
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Cap glycl and phenylpropanol (nature based?) marketed more on hype than efficacy. Easy unsupported claims of broad range, preservative-free resistance-proof efficacy wide pH range economic and “natural”. - used car salesmanship.
Unless you have the capabilities to investigate in depth - suggest you stick with your current systems. -
What is packaging?
Aminat G offers something as a multifunctional but think you need something more or Gram negatives. Phenoxy at 0.5% might work -
Think you can answer the question experimentally.
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20 minutes is not necessary with alcohol. Just spray and allow to evaporate. You can’t use it for large or closed vessels and piping or tubing.
You can’t control the vapor pressure and you want the alcohol to evaporate. Just want enough ventilation.
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Gluconate is not a good substitute for EDTA.
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You need not immerse small pieces . Spray, ensuring you hit all surfaces, and do watch for vapor buildup.
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Some consider the 70% to be self preserving.
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You must clean before sanitizing
70-75% - prefer ethanol
before each batching
let it evaporate - acts in seconds
cover small items after sanitizingit is an explosion hazard so be aware of vapor buildup
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Can’t use sal acid on kids under 3 per EU cosm. directive.
If you use an organic acid, make is benzoic (as Na salt).
I’d put phenoxyethanol behind isothiazolinones and DMM hydantoin.
Add a chelant - esp. EDTA. -
I’ll add another case study. Soap shipped as prills in fiber drums suffered gross mold contamination. As bar it never had any issue. Difference was water activity - greater surface area for evaporation in a closed vessel increased Aw to permissive level for fungal growth on (high pH) prills.
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It does Bill but is effective vs. manufacturing risk. Consumer use is not relevant. It doesn’t need to be that stable.
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Sorry - I don’t know. You could run a diffusion study to semquantify pres stability.
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Clay is hard to preserve and chelants do poorly with it. DMDM hydantoin with parabens or an organic acid (if pH permits) would be a reasonable try.
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I think I answered the central question.
pH 3-8 is not an adequate standard and soap can be contaminated - esp. with additions such as milk. Obviously relevant contaminant has special capabilities.I’ll add my 1st experience was with a well known French milk bar in the early “80 prob with the same bug - Nesterenkonia wasn’t named until 1995
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There are preservatives in this ingredient list. Preservative is there because it is needed. Soap, esp. with milk, can be contaminated and the pH is not necessarily enough to protect.
You’d need a pH of ~2 or less and ~11 or greater to assure protectionhttps://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/ics.12401
and
Prevalence of Moderately Halophytic
Aerobic Gram Positive Cocci in Bath
Soap Bars with Special Reference to
Nesterenkonia -
Don’t store -it’s not that stable.
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probably - keep pH neutral or slightly acidic