Home Cosmetic Science Talk Formulating Euxyl PE 9010 and it’s “smell”

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  • Euxyl PE 9010 and it’s “smell”

    Posted by sean9980 on March 13, 2022 at 3:41 am

    I have a Hyaluronic Acid serum i am using preservative euxyl pe 9010 at 1% and potassium sorbate at 0.25%. It’s the potassium sorbate even really effective at this rate? Is there any other better solutions for mold control than potassium sorbate because I’m wondering if some of the irritation the customers are complaining about is related to it. Also, getting some complaints about the characteristic smell of the euxyl pe 9010, any ideas how to cover it up? 

    abdullah replied 1 year, 8 months ago 5 Members · 19 Replies
  • 19 Replies
  • abdullah

    Member
    March 13, 2022 at 8:50 am

    What is the pH and other ingredients?

    I would say use sodium benzoate with 9010.

  • oldperry

    Member
    March 13, 2022 at 2:02 pm

    Yes, some consumers report irritation from phenoxyethanol.

    Is there any other better solutions for mold control than potassium sorbate...” 

    Yes, Methylparaben is better and doesn’t cause irritation.

  • philgeis

    Member
    March 13, 2022 at 3:25 pm

    Could “smell” may also be due to sorbic acid instability/oxidation?

  • sean9980

    Member
    March 13, 2022 at 10:45 pm

    No, the smell is from the Phenoxyethanol, it has a strong smell. I will try making a small batch with 0.5% Euxyl pe 9010 and 0.75% and send it to a lab testing to see if it can hold up

  • Mayday

    Member
    March 14, 2022 at 3:07 am

    I do not get much of an odor with 0.5% Phenoxyethanol or Sodium Benzoate (both LotionCrafter).

    I do get a sharp and pungent acid smell with Potassium Sorbate (Organic Creations) after activating with pH adjustment. 

  • sean9980

    Member
    March 14, 2022 at 1:04 pm

    Mayday, and what percentage are you using Potassium Sorbate, I haven’t really noticed too much of a smell from the Potassium Sorbate, however I know the smell of the Phenoxyethanol is quite strong. I am going to try 0.5%, have you had a mostly water based system and done PET on it?

  • philgeis

    Member
    March 14, 2022 at 1:09 pm

    Suggest phenoxy max 5000 ppm.  If that isn’t effective, greater level is unlikely to help.
    Sorbate as unsaturated molecule can undergo oxidation.

  • abdullah

    Member
    March 14, 2022 at 3:52 pm

    @PhilGeis do you mean if 0.5% phenoxyethanol cant protect against bacteria, 1% may not be effective too?

    Or i couldn’t understand correctly. 

  • philgeis

    Member
    March 14, 2022 at 4:04 pm

    yes

  • Mayday

    Member
    March 14, 2022 at 8:43 pm

    sean9980 said:

    Mayday, and what percentage are you using Potassium Sorbate, I haven’t really noticed too much of a smell from the Potassium Sorbate, however I know the smell of the Phenoxyethanol is quite strong. I am going to try 0.5%, have you had a mostly water based system and done PET on it?

    0.15% KSorb and 0.35% NaBenz adjusted to pH ~4.2 with HCl.

    Informally, neither KSorb nor NaBenz had an odor at neutral pH. After activating with HCl, only KSorb had an odor. This may just be my specific sample from Organic Creations. However, my current opinion is that sorbate may be more trouble than it’s worth due to flushing reactions, oxidation, yellowing, and possible pungent odor—compared to benzoate.

    Likewise, my Phenoxyethanol does not have much noticable odor. If yours does, I suggest sampling other suppliers for one that better suits your product.

    Also I agree with Abdullah above. Sodium Benzoate is likely better. But formula must be pH adjusted appropriately for the benzoate to be useful.

    I expect if your pH is above 5.0 the benzoate will not be an adequate preservative unless you add excessive amounts.

  • philgeis

    Member
    March 14, 2022 at 9:02 pm

    Nice post Mayday.   I too have had trouble with sorbate and also had little to no issue with phenoxy odor (mine at 5000 ppm or less).
    One add - benzoic acid with surfactants can have efficacy well above the indicated pH from pKa.  Can send some documentation
    I used this in preservation (with isothiazolinones) for surfactant products face wash, shampoo, hand soaps for many years.

  • sean9980

    Member
    March 14, 2022 at 9:08 pm

    Well it could be because I have it at 1%, I am making a few samples of 0.50 and .75 and sending it to the lab for the KoKo testing

  • sean9980

    Member
    March 14, 2022 at 9:09 pm

    PhilGeis said:

    Nice post Mayday.   I too have had trouble with sorbate and also had little to no issue with phenoxy odor (mine at 5000 ppm or less).
    One add - benzoic acid with surfactants can have efficacy well above the indicated pH from pKa.  Can send some documentation
    I used this in preservation (with isothiazolinones) for surfactant products face wash, shampoo, hand soaps for many years.

    Is it a mostly water based system?

  • philgeis

    Member
    March 14, 2022 at 9:21 pm

    the products were
    here’s a poster for the benzoic acid/pH efficacy.  There’s also an article SOFW about 5 years ago

  • abdullah

    Member
    March 15, 2022 at 1:27 am

    @PhilGeis thanks

    Is this so only for hyaluronic acid serum or in any product like shampoo and emulsion too? 

  • philgeis

    Member
    March 15, 2022 at 1:35 am

    I’m only aware of phenomenon with surfactant-based products 

  • abdullah

    Member
    March 15, 2022 at 7:39 am

    PhilGeis said:

    I’m only aware of phenomenon with surfactant-based products 

    Does it include anionic and cationic emulsions too or only surfactants based cleansing products? 

  • philgeis

    Member
    March 15, 2022 at 10:39 am

    Data I’ve seen is with anionic surfactants.

  • abdullah

    Member
    March 15, 2022 at 1:29 pm

    PhilGeis said:

    Data I’ve seen is with anionic surfactants.

    Thanks

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