PhilGeis
Forum Replies Created
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Try 0.3/0.5. Have seen stability issues with EDTA and another hydroxamic acid Zn complex ZPT . Don’t know if efficacy impacted. Suppose AET will reveal.
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It is formula dependent - but doubt there are enough data to answer esp. as testing offers qualitative rather than quantitative assessment.. Think 0.3-0.5% for Capryl hydroxamic acid.
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chrystad72 said:
Hello! I hope Im not derailing this thread too much but just wanted to ensure Im not misunderstanding this comment. Is the suggestion to add Optiphen into the water phase and then combine the oil phase? Apologies in advance if Im misunderstanding this. Thanks!
Right
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sure others have more info - certainly fade hair coloring but prob needs repeated exposure to really damage
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Chlorine (hypochlorite) - it’s very reactive with protein. If uncomplexed, you can rinse it away - otherwise it’s prob complexed with hair protein.
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Green hair - usually attributed to copper. EDTA should help to some extent. https://europepmc.org/article/med/7555100
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The Jergen’s preservative system would be effective against the bug- as would 0.5% phenoxy. The issue is apparently failed manufacturing hygiene against which no preservative system would hold up. That failure might be as obscure as the use of a contaminated raw material or swab detection of the bug on a product contact surface (with no detect in product) or actual product contamination.
Also consider that a company like Jergens would function at a more demanding spec and testing protocol than many here would apply and would reject and recall based on any isolation without looking for a retest excuse to blow off the finding.
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Graillotion - that assumption is incorrect. There is no preservative system that can’t be compromised. The weak, PC systems like leucidal are much more vulnerable - and those using them are usually less capable of detecting contamination and in some cases more likely to compromise in quality.
Jergen’s uses good systems a=but apparently failed in manufacturing hygiene. It is a surprise as I know that these guys are pretty sound. But it takes only one compromise, and the kevel of testing they invest may have found contamination that others would have missed.gergoviae - formerly Enterobacter has been a tough one for creams and lotions.
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right Perry - with retailers, even more than public outcry
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For those interested, curriculum is being established with Univ Cincinnati
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Right Graillotion.
Good grief, that report is absurd. “hardly show any adverse reaction” - looking only at electrocardiogram?
Here’s a relevant publication from that same French clinical site (best known for sleep research) in a low tier journal. It’s pretty absurd too and shows you can find somebody to publish anything.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3681103/
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Please recall glycols can induce irritation. I am familiar with a clinical study of minoxidil in glycol vehicle that provoke very significant irritation. -
“Organic Grape alcohol” - for a functional purpose, it’s just ethanol and you need to make sure it’s good alcohol. Alcohol itself can be contaminated.
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I’d not get carried away with the efficacy claim
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Aquacar IG50 - glutaraldehdye - is good chemically. At alkaline pH , it’s a good biocide at alkaline pH but degrades rapidly.
Not sure it has necessary EPA registration to be used in household product context so may not be legal for this in US. -
Mg hydroxide is pretty insoluble.
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wonder at data - no way this is “natural”
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btw - NaOH and Mg sulfate will likely precipitate some Mg hydroxide
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Data I’ve seen is with anionic surfactants.
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I’m only aware of phenomenon with surfactant-based products
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the products were
here’s a poster for the benzoic acid/pH efficacy. There’s also an article SOFW about 5 years ago -
Nice post Mayday. I too have had trouble with sorbate and also had little to no issue with phenoxy odor (mine at 5000 ppm or less).
One add - benzoic acid with surfactants can have efficacy well above the indicated pH from pKa. Can send some documentation
I used this in preservation (with isothiazolinones) for surfactant products face wash, shampoo, hand soaps for many years. -
EDTA won’t work - tho’ a builder would be a good idea for cleaning. It’s just a booster to preservative efficacy. Your objective for household products is to make them clean - unlike cosmetics for which micro safety in use is an issue.
Can you heat (pasteurize) product as final manuf step? -
Dawn uses isothiazolinone and phenoxyethanol - with the apparent head fake that the latter is “solvent.”
Viscosity - would NaCl work ? Might be cheaper and less prone to soap formation with food fatty acids
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yes
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Suggest phenoxy max 5000 ppm. If that isn’t effective, greater level is unlikely to help.
Sorbate as unsaturated molecule can undergo oxidation.