PhilGeis
Forum Replies Created
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Preservative system is pretty weak - esp. versus Gram negative bacteria. Risky as facial wash will bring exposure to tap water. Can you describe your packaging and QA/QC capability?
Why Gluconolactone? If for chelation, advise EDTA.
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Do not play with pH. Benzoate/sal acid preservation can be effective but is very very formula and pH sensitive. As ketckito said - you should represerve.
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Phenoxyethanol has very little sensitization risk, less than parabens, and parabens preservation can be effective. But risk assessments are based primarily on finished products, and Cetaphil folks have resources for a complete product risk assessment. Those not so well funded have relied on CIR and classic preservative combinations - notably without HRIPT.
Tho’ FDA is moving slowly, I think there will be an expectation of HRIPT for all cosmetic products.
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Dietary supplements not cosmetics
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Ingredient labeling compliance may be tough.
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Micro risk here is making and packing - formula, process design and raw material control. Cold process does not help. “Tested” by you or supplier. Water - to what level of detection.
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Prob came in with phenoxyethanol as e.g. PE 9010.
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what is your process and package?
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In some contexts
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Magnolia bark - do not use.
One does not preserve the lipid phase - we preserve the water phase and the lipid-water interface.
Water in oil is a different micro risk. Generally, the bugs offered in use can’t find the water droplets to grow. Since preservatives are in the water phase, the same dynamic will male it difficult to pass an challenge test.
86 (with prejudice) the magnolia bark and add something for fungi. Do you have a chelator? Why must pH be ~7 rather than lower?
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Are you sure your H2O2 is stable? What %? Amine oxides have some activity.
Sales BS - “… Alkyl Polyglucoside “can be used to reduce or eliminate the use of traditional preservatives.”
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If you have stable 3% hydrogen peroxide, no preservative is needed. What is meant by ” 3% Hydrogen Peroxide (1% active)”?
Unless pH ~7, I’d not bother with a preservative challenge test. The bugs are so whimpy most unpreserved cleaners will pass without a problem.
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Folks need to make their products safe for any market. Good idea to combine.
Here, provide formulas including pH and forget the silly Leucidal . Can’t you find Benzoate without the added Neodefend garbage?
Based on what you have - 5000 ppm (0.5%) phenoxy (either Optiphen or 9010) and 3000 ppm (0.3%) benzoate (from Neodefend) and keep the pH at 6 or less. You need a chelator - the added stuff from Neodefend will not be enough.
As Mike said, prob don;t need a preservative for the bar and please confirm the rest with testing. If you can’t, make only for your own use.
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Thanks. Good for the packaging - what about your production? Do you test your raws or work off CoA’s? How good is your water.
Please do not accept preservative marketers’ BS as valid - “broad-spectrum, preservative-free blend based on caprylhydroxamic acid, ” is both grossly incorrect and unethical. Cap glycol./cap hydroxamate combination offers a major gap re Gram negative bacteria and you are including these for the sole purpose of preservation.
Gluconolactone is unstable and will break down in an aq. product. Your customer will experience its breakdown product gluconic acid, not gluconolactone.
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While esterases might generate C12 fatty acid in situ, I’d still not count on coconut oil for antifungal or antibacterial effect.
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Not sure what reactive means. Neogen/Biolumix level of detection is greater than what most folks use.
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why Biolumix?
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no - you can worry but can do nothing about it
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yes
So you’ve no micro capability?
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how good are you raws - esp. water?
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Challenge test to see
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Lume (and its annoying inventor) claim low pH as mechanism for its efficacy.
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As my friend ketchito said, that is a weak system. How did you come up with it?
Need a primary - CMIT, PE or the like
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generally, no one preservative has sufficient broad spectrum efficacy and it’s more difficult for a bug to adapt to two preservatives
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“mm”? Any idea what those data mean? pH is a primary factor in hard surface product preservation.
You have 1%. Are you confident of stability?
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9010 and Optiphen are just phenoxy. Cap glycol EHG are both boosters vs Gram neg’s - not aware of diff for safety.
NeoDefend is BS. It’s just overpriced Na Benzoate - as its info says “Sodium benzoate is a preservative with bacteriostatic and fungistatic properties under acidic conditions (pH should be 6 or below). Calcium gluconate is added at a very low level as an inert flow agent.”. Gluconolactone is unstable and breaks to down to gluconate that’s already in the stuff.