[PharmaSpain]

Congratulations Belassi!!! Hoping to see your website and products. I am happy for you after your last name history

[PharmaSpain]

I think here the point is not if a white person can have or not so curly hair, but how frequently and the impact in marketing. 

David I have not seen in my entere live a white person with a so curly hair as black people have. There are people….sure. Will you see them? Few in your life (I could describe that as nano niche) I think swabu is talking from a cosmetics and not pharma-biology point of view (but reading science comments is great!!). 

Cosmetics is marketing and later the science. Focusing in black people hair market give so HUGE advantage comparing to products “for people with very very curly hair”. Why? because 99,5% of the target is black peolpe and they will prefer a brand orientated exclusively for them (even is science behind is the same). You will loose 0,5% of your clients, maybe. It worth it? absolutely. Ask to marketing people who are the experts in selling.

[PharmaSpain]

@Margreat I think Perry already knew why the free-preservatives product request hehe

[PharmaSpain]

@David08848 I am not very agree with you. Black, white, asian… in general they have quite differents needs (even not taking in mind cultural aspects…)

Have you seen a lot of white or asian people with so curly hair as black people has? It is normal to want to respond to that needs and to do marketing efforts to an specific target. it does not means to say not to other clients. In general doing that only has marketing advantages.

[PharmaSpain]

harry´s cosmeticology has released the 9th version and is quite big (has 3 volumes). Maybe you can read the index and see if it is enought detailed for you.

[PharmaSpain]

@swabu My suggestion would be:

1- to try to inspire yourself from brands having their expertise in black people. 

Doing this for example you can see the ingredients list. They are ordered int terms of percentage (keep in mind the 1% line). Maybe it is just marketing and the product are almos the same, but it is an starting point. If you see most if this companies use an specific product or this product is use in a different % you already have another key point….

2- You could also read some cosmetics books. The have specific chapters dedicate to ethnic skin differences. For example: handbook of cosmetic science and technology talk in chapter 2 & 3 about that. I can imagine that Harry´s cosmeticology should (last version is huge and I suppose it talks about it, but you should confirm)

3- Even if black skin is different, this is not a huge difference. They are, but not so much. If not, do you think topical medicament would be the same? The most different thing is marketing.

Do not forget to come here again if you become an expert in this segment. People that are in the same position that you are now could benefit from your knowledge

Regards

[PharmaSpain]

@Belassi I think you or your client can have problems in customs as Perry says. If something is illegal in some country, it can not go into. It does not matters if it is legal in origin country. Going to extreme: Imagine that cocaine would be legal somewhere. Could you import it?

@Perry : is it legal to say in USA something like: “With Vit C”. “Vitamin C can help to reduce age sun spots…” 

I mean. You are saying 2 things that are true, but not saying that your product has this effect…. You could say the same from a orange juice and it would be not a lie.

Do you know how is EU in terms of cosmeceuticals?

[PharmaSpain]

Butylene glycol is not very common to produce allergic reactions.

We wait for the rest of ingredients. 

[PharmaSpain]

The problem is that I think FDA is not really clear:

In the letter they are only clear talking about disease treatement.

The Food and Drug Administration (FDA) warns cosmetics companies when they make claims about their products that classify them as drugs, not cosmetics. FDA has issued warning letters citing drug claims associated with topical skin care, hair care, and eyelash/eyebrow preparations, noted on both product labeling and Web sites. Some examples of the drug claims cited are acne treatment, dandruff treatment and hair restoration.

 Also they say cosmetics can not make drug claims. But when the “problematic” arrives and they have to say something like: “FDA will prosecute this claims” they are not clear again and they say:

What if a skin product comes with the suggestion that it can turn back the biological clock? Consumers might think that these products can be used as effectively as, or instead of, more costly procedures, Liedtka says. “If a skin cream says it works better than a facelift … well, people wouldn’t be getting facelifts anymore.”

Do you know if in EU cosmetics are allow to go a step more than just “visual enhancement” (not doing disease treatment claims of course)?

[PharmaSpain]

Are you talking of emulsions or gels?

Are they DIY or comercial products? ingredients, formulas?

Do they contain ethanol /glycols? they can cause irritation.

More information is needed

[PharmaSpain]

Not taking in consideration, individual reactions, i can see for example:

- Essential oils can produce allergic reactions.

- vit E could (but not the most common). http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/723147_3

- did your friend also use a “control patch” to see if she could be sensitive to the patch “glue”?

[PharmaSpain]

great answer @Perry.

@student54 : i do not see the problem of “synthetically preserved” personal care products. No real/critical scientific can see it.

@paranoiagent : We hope you keep as informed I hope you the most of luck!

[PharmaSpain]

about considering a cosmetic like a drug if they would actually work. Are not FDA and EMA “flexible” with products that could show some limited efficacy (if they are not sold as treatment or mention in the label that they have drug effects)? Maybe USA and EU are different in that aspect?

I am not talking about what is the definition of cosmetics that is clear, I am talking about tolerance of the law to “small or limited effects” not announced as “medical drugs”

[PharmaSpain]

Hi Belassi,

In my opinion, organic grow and maybe later (it depends on your organisation philosophy) franchise. How do you plan to do a franchise model without having proved your brand works? Imagine that you have success getting people involve in opening franchise, are your structure prepared to have small or big sellings contrast? I mean, it is not easy to have an structure that allows to survive manufacturing small quantities (starting period may be not easy) and respond to a possible big success and viceversa. It is not so easy to explain but franchise model can experiment big selling contrast (more selling points, more impact of each decision) and at the same time having more selling points can helps you to survive if some of them do not correctly “being help” by the others….depending on how they are distribute. It is not the same to respond to one selling point that several.

Starting in franchise mode also have the difficulty to get involve the correct people…have you think how to select involved people (with difficulty of selecting with not a lot of interested people (remember your brand is new)) and how to control what they do with your brand image?

If I were you, organic grow. If you are very sucess, after some opened selling points, think about have a % of franchised locals. Ex: if you have 10 shops, 1 or 2 are not going to change too much if they start to sell more than you expected or even if arrives the situation that you have to cancel your contract with them.

If you are thinking about franchise because that allows to open more locals and grow faster, why not to sell some actions to get cash and open yourself more shops? (it is an option)

[PharmaSpain]

Thanks Bob!

About quality homogenization, it surprised me when you said: “the same type of machine configuration/geometry/speed will produce the same type of emulsion“. Has not Silverson proved a better homogenization process? Of course, same system is going to produce almost the same, but are chinesse products using the same high shear system?

About ultrasonication: I know it is not an standard process (that is why i asked myself…something happens) when doing very big batches, but in this web ( https://www.hielscher.com/power-ultrasound-for-the-production-of-cosmetics.htm ) you can read for example that they have models to produce up to 100L. I think a small-medium company produce less that that each time (excluding soaps and big bottles products). If you need more, just run the machine 2 or 3 times (not a lot of clean process is required with ultrasonics I think).

 

They also say that scale-up is one of the advantages of this system….of course they try to sell their products but if they “highlight” this point I suppose there is a little bit of “true”…or maybe not haha but i would not highlight a disadvantage as advantage (I would just not say a word)

you told you tried chinese-made lab stirres. Could you tell us brand-model. It is a big help to know where to trust?

Thanks for your great job here in the forum, Bob.

[PharmaSpain]

The problem I see with chinese products is warranty and assistance. It is true that price is not comparable but 450$ into the rubbish is more expensive than 4500$ working. isn´t it?

Also we should keep in consideration the homogenization quality and droplet size… some experience? 

I am very interested in buying an homogenizer and start a cosmetic line and Bob chinese links were amazing but putting 450$ in something seeing only a picture….Bob, do you test them or know someone who did it?

What do you think about ultrasonic homogenizers. Advantages/disadvantages with high shear homogenizers? In theory, homogenization quality is better as droplet size is lower, isn´t it? I do not find too much information but is seems an interesting tachnology. Do you know why is not widely used?

[PharmaSpain]

Hi to everyone!! I´m Rubén from Spain.

It is great to have discovered this SCIENTIFIC cosmetic forum.

I studied pharmacy degree in Spain and later, I did an industrial pharmacy master in France. After my master I worked in a raw material company in France. I met this forum because of my interest to develop my own cosmetics formulas and why not, maybe start a little start-up in medium term.

[PharmaSpain]

Even if question is answered maybe someone that search in the topic can find my tip useful

I think printer services are really more cost effective than printing your own labels as this field is very competitive.

For example, in my last bussiness experience (nothing about cosmetics) I knew a german company that is really cheap and high quality product (I ordered bussiness cards). For example: 1000 labels (63€). You can order much less but for me it is the best price-quantity order. And shipping cost are for free… (at least in europe).

I attach label product link: https://www.onlineprinters.com/Labels-on-rolls.htm?websale8=diedruckerei.02-aa&ci=009100

I hope you will find it useful!