OldPerry
Forum Replies Created
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Buy a thicker grade?
What is the whole formula?
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Drugstore.com used to have that feature too. It was really helpful.
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What are you hoping the lactobacillus ferment lysate will do in the formula?
Propylene glycol is not a preservative. You need to use a proper antimicrobial preservative like parabens, formaldehyde donors, phenoxyethanol, etc.
Lysates are by definition non-living and an antimicrobial preservative will not have any impact on them.
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@ngarayeva001 - I agree that it has some helpful information. However, I have a problem with the ingredient cheerleading that goes on on that site.
Take this Vitis Seed Extract as an example.
https://incidecoder.com/ingredients/vitis-vinifera-seed-extractSomeone who knows nothing about raw materials can be easily mislead by this description. Instead of calling the ingredient a “goodie” and espousing all the benefits, a formulator or cosmetic scientist should first learn that the ingredient is a “claims only” or “marketing story” ingredient. They should realize that the ingredient will most likely do nothing measurable in the formula. It is not a suitable antioxidant. It will not protect you from UV and it certainly isn’t an anti-cancer ingredient. This is just marketing hyperbole.
Cosmetic scientists should know that this is BS and are stories told primarily for marketing products. A website that doesn’t make that clear is not helping formulators. Rather, it is misleading and misinforming them. This will lead to dubious formulas which new formulators think are helping people but in the best case scenario they’re not and in the worst case scenario they are harmful.
It’s bad enough that consumers believe this stuff, it’s much worse when formulators do.
I’ll also add that there is no reason Ceteareth-25 should be limited to hair products. It’s perfectly fine to use in face creams & can be used whenever it makes sense for a formula.
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@MaisR - The INCI Decoder website looks interesting, but it is not put together by someone who is suitably skeptical or has much experience with the ingredients. The description of materials reads like something a marketing person put together and speaks way too glowingly about raw materials, especially so-called “active” ingredients.
You might find some good marketing stories here, but new formulators could easily be mislead by the information presented.
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1. What speed? That depends on the formula
2. Paddle or blade? - That depends on the formula
3. Cook under pressure? Pressure cookers are not used by professional formulators. -
For that you would use an antioxidant like BHA or BHT
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Formalin is not used in hand wash formulations any longer. If you want to use “formaldehyde” you would use a formaldehyde donor like DMDM Hydantoin.
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Where are you selling it?
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That depends on what you specifically mean by “formaldehyde”, where you are selling it, and what level you want to use it at. However, I doubt you’ll get much color protection but you could test it.
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Yes, but it depends on why you are using the ingredients. They are used for different purposes.
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Here’s a relevant paper on the subject.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/5mknv0xql46qdns/Pehnoxyethanol-guang2016.pdf?dl=0 -
You should check the CARB regulations related to VOCs in cosmetics. I think 15% in a gel is over the limit.
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@MarkBroussard - I think it is confusing since COSMOS, NSF, NPA, etc all have different standards. The court rulings may have provided a little guidance but it’s still vague as to what is really natural.
And a non-scientist like @Daniel3359 who seems to believe that natural means “without chemicals” & believes that California Baby makes products without synthetic chemicals (they use lots of synthetic chemicals) is certainly confused.
Until someone creates a plant that can grow a tube of lipstick or a coconut in which you can squeeze out body, I contend there are no natural cosmetics.
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@kot - I’m not sure I understand what you mean by “dissolvers”. Do you have an ingredient list of a micellar water that you can share? My review of micellar water ingredient lists & the way they are marketed leads me to view these as simply watered down regular cleansers or formulated with surfactants that are not particularly effective at cleansing.
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@kot - micellar water (which is just diluted surfactant) would not be a particularly effective option.
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I agree silicones will give a more noticeable results but Polyquaterniums are much easier to formulate with.
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@EVchem - other countries follow the same rule.
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@RSullivan - Anyone can call themselves a cosmetic chemist and make a video on Youtube.
But even if the person is a cosmetic chemist, it’s easy to be misinformed or mistaken. I’m sure there are things I believe that are not exactly correct.
Someone who misunderstands the importance of preservation and the concept of water activity could easily come the conclusion that formulas with 5% or less water don’t need preservatives. But they would be wrong. It would be relatively easy to demonstrate microbial growth in such products.
I personally believe that omitting preservatives from any formula is a mistake & an unnecessary safety risk. Product safety is more important than a marketing position.
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@Gunther - Yes, these would work much the same way as cetrimonium chloride for example. In the paper, Silicones as conditioning agents in shampoos - K Yahagi - JOURNAL-SOCIETY OF COSMETIC CHEMISTS, 1993
They show the relative differences in combing effect from highest to lowest was Dimethicone, Amodimethicone, and Dimethicone Copolyol. -
Yes, I’ve heard of this happening with Phenoxyethanol.
Here’s a relevant paper on the subject.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/5mknv0xql46qdns/Pehnoxyethanol-guang2016.pdf?dl=0 -
@Aziz - I don’t really agree with that advice. Here’s a good article looking at pH of hair and hair care products.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4158629/“There is no standardized value for the shampoo final pH, and this is not a mandatory issue. The pH value is not informed on the labels. As the hair fiber has a pH of 3.67, a pH closer to 3.67 has less possibility to increase the negative electric charge that normally involves the capillary fiber. To address the treatment of the scalp, shampoos must not have a pH higher than 5.5.” -
I think most of it does just get rinsed down the drain. This was always a problem I had with using water soluble silicones in rinse off hair products.
In my experience, I was never able to demonstrate a significant effect via tress testing on a blinded basis. We mostly included the material because it affected the feel of the product while in use. I don’t recall seeing any post-use benefits.
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What makes an eye cream an eye cream? MARKETING
Although you might consider looking at the rheology of products on the market because they are a bit thinner.
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@avaanstar - well, that’s a start. But what you should really do is test it on a blinded basis where you don’t know what’s in the formula. Do a triangulation test. 2 samples are of one batch and 1 sample is of the other. Blind code them. Conduct your tests and see if you can pick out the one that is different.
Simply testing something when you know what’s in it is very likely to mislead you to the wrong conclusion. If you believe it’s the phenoxyethanol & test it while unblinded you will most likely confirm your belief.