OldPerry
Forum Replies Created
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@driftmark2016 - the reality is that whether you put the ceramides in the formula or not, most people will not notice any difference. In my view, they are simply marketing materials.
So, heating them up, even if it chemically degrades the molecules a bit, doesn’t really matter.
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Interesting technology, post and follow-up comments @Pharma
I took this technology to be something that naturally went along with efforts to develop animal free meat. Maybe it’s a by-product of that process?
Either way, this is one of the most interesting ideas in raw materials that I’ve seen in awhile. Not sure if it will go anywhere but I’ll keep watching.
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@mrlv90 - initially, you didn’t ask any question. Without knowing what you mean by the term “red flags” there is not much to answer.
In your follow up question about Lemon Peel Oil, it’s not really posed in a way that someone could answer.
Who thinks Lemon Peel Oil is controversial?
Here is the CIR safety review of citrus oils.
https://www.cir-safety.org/sites/default/files/Citrus%20peel.pdfThey specifically have this to say about skin irritation - “Lemon oil, orange oil, and mandarin peel oil all produced some reaction in irritation studies in animals, but in human subjects, no irritation was observed after topical exposure to lemon oil (up to 20%) or mandarin peel oil (8%).”
The idea that lemon peel oil is an irritant is not supported by science.
Whether that same person who does not use scientific evidence to come to their conclusions will consider lemon extract a “red flag”, I have no idea.
I’d say probably.
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What “silicon oil” do you want to incorporate?
Your formula here is not using proper ingredient names. I can guess at some but what is Total Guard? or HydroGar C261?
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This isn’t a proper ingredient list.
1. Rose Flower Water should not be the first ingredient.
2. The term “organic” has no place in an ingredient list.
3. Trade names should not be used in an ingredient list (e.g. Emulsifying Wax)
4. There are too many instances of inappropriate use of a parentheses. For example, Provitamin B5 (DL-Panthenol) should simply be Panthenol. -
@chemicalmatt - you must not have done a Google search on Methylisothiazolinone reactions. For some, saying Kathon is safe is fightin’ words.
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The answer to your first question is that they do not know the rules for listing ingredients and they have made a mistake. Perhaps out of ignorance or perhaps on purpose.
But to your other questions, the amount of plant extract you use in the vast majority of cases, does not matter. These things even if used at 100% of your formula are unlikely to have any noticeable effect. The most likely thing is to trigger some allergic reaction. You can use more or less of whatever plant extract that you can get. For this reason, most companies just use less.
No, they are not using a weaker form of green tea extract. Green tea extract doesn’t do anything (on skin) so you can’t really make it weaker.
Incidentally, when you buy a green tea extract from a company it will typically be sold to you as a 1% solution in something like glycerin or propylene glycol. So even at 100% use level, you would only be getting 1% in your formula.
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@ngarayeva001 - yes, although some polymers can absorb water from the air which may lead to microbial contamination. So, I wouldn’t be as confident about those types. However, this is still a low probability event.
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If any of those ingredients are solids, I wouldn’t worry about the expiration date passing. Cetearyl Alcohol and Steric Acid aren’t going to break down significantly in solid form. For the liquids, as long as there are no big color or odor changes, they’re also probably fine.
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It’s not as good.
Reportedly, 5% Petrolatum blocks 98% moisture loss. Beeswax is considerably less (my guess would be 20%). See this write-up. Doesn’t compare beeswax but there is no reason to think it works better than lanolin or mineral oil.
“Petrolatum in a minimum concentration of 5% reduces TEWL by more than 98% followed by lanolin, mineral oil, and silicones which only reduce TEWL by 20–30%”
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The main benefit to using polyglucosides is to be able to claim “sulfate free” or “natural.” But as far as performance goes…I think they’re lousy.
But you have to remember that success in the cosmetic industry is not simply a function of how well a product works. Marketing is vitally important too. Glucosides help with some marketing positions.
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Big and medium sized companies do their own stability and micro challenge testing. They have a specific protocol written out and made available to inspectors if required. So, you can do your own stability testing. But it requires a big up-front investment in ovens and light chambers and protocol writing and following. That’s why it’s typically less expensive and easier for a smaller company to outsource.
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You could contact the University of Toledo. (try Gabriella.Baki@utoledo.edu)
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When you wash your hair, you clean everything off. Oils, dirt, styling ingredients, and conditioning ingredients are all removed. If you clean it really well, this can leave the hair less manageable and tangled. That’s why conditioners were invented. They put things back on your hair. Conditioning ingredients like guar, polyquat-10, or stearamidopropyl dimethylamine are meant to be left on the hair.
The cleansing surfactants don’t know the difference between things that are good to be left in the hair (conditioning agents) and things that should be removed from the hair (dirt & oil). So, they just try to remove everything they can.
When you put conditioning ingredients in your shampoo, you are adding more “dirt” to hair that the cleansing surfactants try to remove. More dirt = less effective cleaning.
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I think they said it best in Jurassic Park. “Life, Uh, Finds a Way”
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Sure, increasing the amount of surfactant will increase their cleansing power.
However, with the amount you mentioned it’s like going from “no cleaning at all” to “almost no cleaning at all”If you want cleansing, and you want to use amphoterics, you would have to use a lot higher percentage (10%) and get rid of all the things in the formula that interfere with cleaning such as…
Cetearyl Alcohol
Guar Hydroxypropyltrimonium Chloride
Stearamidopropyl Dimethylamine
Polyquaternium-10
Xylityl Sesquicaprylate -
If you want useful help you’ll need to provide your formula. The best advice you’ll get from this description is…
1. Don’t use the essential oils
2. Use a different water-soluble preservative -
45C and 35C
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@alasilva - I do understand that those products are sold as “washing” conditioners, but the reality is that those formulas are just conditioners. They have no cleansing ability at all. They are conditioners meant to leave behind conditioning agents like Guar Hydroxypropyltrimonium Chloride & Stearamidopropyl Dimethylamine.
The amounts of betaine and glucoside used help keep the formula stable and aid in rinse off, however, they offer no cleaning power for anything. They will not even help clean hair that simply has oil in it. So no, they won’t take off silicones or any other material on your hair for that matter.
“Cleaning” hair with a conditioner is not cleaning the hair at all. You are simply putting “clean” dirt on top of your existing dirty hair.
It’s the equivalent of washing dishes with salad dressing instead of detergent.
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Yes, they remove silicones. Maybe not as efficiently as something like Sodium Lauryl Sulfate but cleansing surfactants clean surfaces.
Although, both of the examples you listed are conditioners. They have not been formulated to clean hair. I wouldn’t expect either of those to clean anything off hair except for maybe the product itself.
For example, this shampoo would be perfectly fine for removing silicones.
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You will only know if you do an accelerated temperature stability test.
Yes, my system with it separated. -
And to suspend it you need a suspending material like Carbomer EDT 2020
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If you are going to sell products made from home, you should become familiar with this page put out by the FDA.
https://www.fda.gov/cosmetics/resources-industry-cosmetics/small-businesses-homemade-cosmetics-fact-sheet -
That sure looks like a heavy leave-in conditioner! I agree that the 1% line is probably before the Panthenol, although some companies today put in more which I don’t understand at all.
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@Zink - you make some great points.
I’d suggest that you do not need as much money however if you work on email marketing. You can build a relationship with people via email marketing in a way that SEO and even social media don’t. You just need to rank for a lot of long tail keywords and that means creating a website with lots of content and a free something to give away to get email addresses. Then you need to have a good story to tell through email which might eventually lead to a sale. For someone starting out with limited funds, this is the strategy I’d suggest.