OldPerry
Forum Replies Created
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I would call a product that contains live bacteria…contaminated.
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The tests needed depend on the specific claims you are making.
But you’ll need Stability testing and microbial testing for sure.
Any claim you make, you have to be able to prove.
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Ah, well if you are not selling the product then the risk is up to you. If it doesn’t smell bad as @belassi said or it’s not a weird color or you don’t see anything growing in it, then it’s probably fine. If you make a batch you might just add double the preservative and that should kill most anything. See our other discussion on raw material expiration dates.
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I understand. However, safety testing is an important part of selling cosmetics. It is illegal to sell products that are not safe.
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It’s probably safe, however, you can’t be sure unless you at least conduct a microbial contamination check.
What companies do is they re-run the specification tests to see if the ingredient still falls within the ingredient specifications. If it does then we use it. If it doesn’t, we don’t.
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If you want to make sure you don’t get separation then putting all the oils at a high temperature is the best method.
You can add oils at lower temperatures but not really more than 1% of total formula. 7.5% (and 50% of oil phase) is just too much for most systems.
The only reason not to add oils at a higher temperature though is if they are aromatic and you are using them for their odor. For something like emollience I doubt you would see any noticeable difference.
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That depends on a lot of factors such as the amount of oil you’re adding after the emulsion is formed, your mixing speeds, and what you consider “stable”.
This is one of those things you just have to try & see what happens.
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If you’re selling a leave-on product like the one you suggested, 1% fragrance of most fragrances is probably the highest you’d want to go due to irritation issues.
Still it depends highly on the fragrance & base you are using.
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It depends on the fragrance but usually less than 1%
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@biochemist101 - at the top of the website, on the right hand column, under the button “Visit the Blog” there is a button for “New Discussion”. Click that and post your discussion.
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5 people is not very many. Not a great sample for which to make any reasonable conclusions.
But if you had 30 people…
I’d first do a triangle test to see if anyone could tell a difference. Make 2 of one formula and 1 of the other formula and see if anyone could pick out the odd one. Before you ask them which one is superior you should first see if anyone can actually tell a difference.
Then you could ask “which would you be willing to pay more for?” I’m not sure if putting a price is going to give you much helpful data.
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For an eye product? ADD a preservative! Phenoxyethanol perhaps.
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I think we are mostly in agreement about this.
Where we may diverge slightly is on the claims side. I don’t see much difference between companies that greenwash and companies that claim natural but then use things that are clearly not found in or not obtained from nature.
I would say that the JASON coconut oil product should be able to claim ‘natural’ since it is just coconut oil.
But their JASON body wash is certainly not natural. Would you agree?
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The claims you make about your product depends on the regulations of where you are selling it.
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I don’t think ‘nature identical’ is easy to define, or at least it is not easy to achieve. Many ingredients found in nature are a specific isomer which can’t be easily achieved in the lab. Chemically it could be the same molecule but because of the isomeric structure it doesn’t function the same. To call something ‘nature identical’ you’d also have to match the isomeric distribution.
What company that positions itself as “natural” isn’t guilty of false advertising?
Every company is using ingredients that are produced in a lab or factory.
I wouldn’t consider adhering to the COSMOS standards as making a product natural.
For example, look at this product by Burts Bees who claims to be 99.9% natural.
http://www.burtsbees.com/product/fabulously-fresh-peppermint-%26-rosemary-body-wash/00112-00.html#navlvl=4&start=1Ingredients: water, decyl glucoside, lauryl glucoside, sucrose laurate, coco-betaine, betaine, glycerin, sodium cocoyl hydrolyzed soy protein, coco-glucoside, glyceryl oleate, mentha piperita (peppermint) oil, rosmarinus officinalis (rosemary) leaf extract, achillea millefolium extract, chamomilla recutita (matricaria) flower extract, cymbopogon schoenanthus extract, humulus lupulus (hops) extract, melissa officinalis leaf extract, tocopherol, hydrogenated palm glycerides citrate, lecithin, hydroxypropyltrimonium honey, fragrance, glucose, sodium chloride, citric acid, glucose oxidase, lactoperoxidase, ascorbyl palmitate, potassium iodide, potassium thiocyanate, phenoxyethanol, limonene, linaloolWhere in nature are you going to find Decyl Glucoside, Lauryl Glucoside, Cocobetaine…etc.?
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You’ve asked a lot of questions here. I’ll answer one at the moment.
Thirdly, I’m using a KitchenAid mixer with a hook. The wire beater adds air - not a good thing but the hook doesn’t always homogenize well enough. Any suggestions for better equipment that isn’t too expensive?
You should use a center stir mixer. See some options in this discussion
Also, see this blog post about lab mixers.
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@doctorbrenda - I’m not sure about the answer to the methyl palmitate vs palmitic acid. It could be that by methylating the palmitic acid first they get a better esterification reaction yield. That is suggested in this patent.
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And for a short look at stoichiometry, see this…
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@Microformulation - we have tried to address this in the past and there is a category “advanced questions” which ostensibly is for that. However, it’s not used very often.
Also, not everyone will agree on what’s an advanced question or not. For example, this question was asking for a commercial, large scale method of filling narrow necked bottles.
It’s true, the original questioner could “google it” but they would also have to know what search terms to use and have no way of figuring out what is a good piece of equipment and what isn’t. Asking on this forum could save them a bunch of time in making a decision if someone already knows what works.
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@biochemist101 - you need to start a new discussion to get responses.
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Passing FDA guidelines didn’t seem to help Johnson & Johnson
These class-action lawsuits are a new way for people to make money off the cosmetic industry. It’s happened with brands like Wen & EOS. They simply settled even though there was little evidence the products were to blame for the claims the class-action brought against them.
It’s good to see big guys like J&J don’t settle when the science is on their side.
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Organic farming uses pesticides too so there is no reason to think certified organic ethanol would be better. But like @johnb implied, this is a highly improbable problem.
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Phenoxyethanol causes this reaction in some people.