OldPerry
Forum Replies Created
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@MarkBroussard - I agree that these marketers aren’t unscrupulous just because they can get people to pay high prices for products. For the most part, cosmetic marketers do not lie.
You’re right, consumers are best described as victims of their own emotions, impulses and ignorance. Critical thinking skills are not encouraged in our society.
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It would also help if you could say what you mean by “slimming gel”. Is that a hair care product? Or is that an anti-cellulite product? Or maybe it’s something else.
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@Dino - Interesting. 5% panthenol in a formula would be ridiculously expensive. And perhaps you could get the same effect (or better) using a more simple humectant like Glycerin or Propylene Glycol.
I hope I didn’t come off as sounding dismissive like “panthenol doesn’t do anything”. That isn’t what was meant. There are two points that were meant.
First, panthenol in hair products probably wouldn’t do anything a consumer would notice. Lab tests often show things that consumers don’t notice.
Second, although panthenol does work as a humectant there is nothing about it that makes it a superior formulating choice when considering effectiveness (as a humectant) and cost. There are less expensive ingredients that work better.
@heraklit - I agree. I wouldn’t call consumers “fools”. People who are duped into spending excessive amounts of money for cosmetics are better described as misinformed or victims of marketing. They deserve sympathy rather than scorn.
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Combing, shine, detangling, feel. All of these can be done wet & dry if you have tresses to test.
For foam, thickness, amount, density
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If you look at Google Trends, something happened that made interest in Argan Oil takeoff in 2010.
https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=all&q=argan%20oilThis type of thing (using claims ingredients in products) has been done in the cosmetic industry for decades. It continues because that’s what people buy.
Consumers don’t want to know that Petrolatum is making their skin feel good, they would rather believe it’s the Aloe Vera.
Consumers don’t want to know that Dimethicone makes their hair shiny. They want to believe it’s the Argan oil.
If consumers were better critical thinkers, they wouldn’t fall for these marketing shenanigans & marketers would stop doing it.
Then formulators could spend more time finding ingredients that had an actual impact on product performance instead of hunting down a new ‘feature’ ingredients that provides a good story but no real benefit.
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I wouldn’t put too much faith in an article that claims there are things that “must be included” in a facial cream.
First, your face doesn’t “need” anything. If you go your entire life without putting cream on your face, that would be perfectly fine. It might not look & feel the way you want but there is no health reason for normal skin to require any cream. (Of course if you have a condition like eczema or psoriasis this wouldn’t apply)
If you like the way your face looks and feels with the product you are using, then keep using it. You don’t need anything else.
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No, Ewax is not particularly comedogenic.
You’ll get better replies if you have a more specific question and also share your formula. “Give me some advice” is not specific enough.
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@em88 - Yes, just added for claims purposes. The only formulators who use them at higher levels are those who have been mislead by the marketing departments of the raw material companies.
If you did a blinded with / without test using Panthenol it’s highly unlikely you would be able to figure out which is which.
Argan oil has about the same fatty acid composition as Olive Oil and will perform the same as it in a hair care product. In a shampoo, it will depress foam. In a conditioner, it may stay behind on hair to provide conditioning. But adding too much will result in the hair being weighed down.
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In truth, Panthenol and Argan oil are claims ingredients. Whether you use 1%, 0.5% or 0.01% will not matter. They will not have a consumer-noticeable effect whether it is in the product or not. At least that has been my experience. I came to the conclusion doing double blinded testing on formulas with and without the ingredients.
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If you want to become a cosmetic chemist, then certainly making the product on your own is something you could do.
But if you want to start a product line and be successful at selling it, you should not create your own formula. There are much more important things you need to work on (like marketing, sales & brand building) than coming up with your own formulas.
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What did you find horrifying about it?
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Interestingly, the bacteria that causes underarm odor is a Staph bacteria.
https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2015/03/31/396573607/meet-the-bacteria-that-make-a-stink-in-your-pitsI still couldn’t find anything that showed Magnesium Hydroxide was effective for preventing underarm odor.
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Don’t put too much faith in statements made about technologies by companies who benefit by having you believe them.
I couldn’t find any studies showing magnesium hydroxide is an antibacterial
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I am thankful for everyone who participates and shares their knowledge and thoughts here on the forum!
I’m also thankful for good health which has allowed me to run at least 1.5 miles every day for the last nine years in a row.
And I’m thankful for stumbling into the cosmetic industry and being able to work on products that make other people happy.
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What function are you looking to get from Magnesium Hydroxide in the formula?
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@SheilaInBoston - “How can this be acceptable?“
This is a great question. The answer is that it’s not. If there was a cosmetic ingredient that caused cancer, chromosomal changes or induced other biochemical changes in the body when used at typical cosmetic levels, it would be illegal to use and sell.
Optiphen (a blend of Phenoxyethanol and Caprylyl Glycol) is safe as used in cosmetics.
Here is a review of the safety testing which you can read for yourself. https://www.evernote.com/shard/s1/sh/9b7aec42-0e69-4833-bf95-2f3901b99792/cc4d8634a61f09eae56ac263a41f98bb
Their conclusion…”On the basis of the available information presented in this report, the Expert Panel concludes the Phenoxyethanol is safe as a cosmetic ingredient in the present practices of use and concentration.”
The remaining question is, why do you think Optiphen causes the problems you mentioned?
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@Doreen81 - regulations are the same for big corporations or home crafters. I’m not sure I would qualify them as “very strict” but the overriding rule is that it is illegal to sell unsafe cosmetics.
Unfortunately, it seems home crafters are misinformed and ignore regulations all the time. Mostly, they suffer no consequences because the FDA has limited resources and cannot go after every violation.
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@Zink - I didn’t create any cGMP certificates. My contract manufacturer essentially handled all the interaction with Amazon, paperwork and shipping it to them.
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Couldn’t you just list your own company as the manufacturer?
Do these changes apply when you are using the Amazon FBA system? I didn’t have to provide this stuff when I sent my pallets of product to them.
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This discussion is relevant.
https://chemistscorner.com/cosmeticsciencetalk/discussion/comment/2579/#Comment_2579
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2 months is the minimum stability time (You’d rather actually have more time than that). But, at minimum it should take about 3 months.
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Reportedly, it’s going over acid value = 9
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I believe they all come from the same supplier.
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You still need a preservative.
Microbes need two things to grow. Food & Water.
- The reason your cream doesn’t need a preservative by itself is because there is no water around for microbes to grow. (for safety reasons I’d still include a preservative but many would not)
- The reason the Magnesium chloride solution doesn’t need a preservative is because there is no food around for microbes to grow.
When you mix the two products you’ve now created the perfect environment for microbes to grow. Water + Food
Thus, you need a preservative.