[OldPerry]

Congratulations!

[OldPerry]

You would need to provide more information for anyone to answer.  Specifically, what is your whole formula?

[OldPerry]

What is your question?  You’ll need to ask a specific question to get a helpful response.

[OldPerry]

The benefits of SCC Membership!

[OldPerry]

If you are a member of the Society of Cosmetic Chemists, you can download the pdf version for free.

[OldPerry]

And don’t forget the excellent book on the subject

Oils of Nature

Unfortunately, it is an Allured book so it is currently out of print.  But if you can find a copy, it’s worth it.

[OldPerry]

You’re asking a question that doesn’t have an exact answer. Whether something is “dirty, synthetic and toxic” is largely a matter of opinion.

If you believe professional toxicologists Polyisobutene & Hydrogenated Polyisobutene are clean, safe and non-toxic in cosmetics.  You can read all the safety testing that has been done on the ingredients here.  Note, this includes animal testing. https://online.personalcarecouncil.org/ctfa-static/online/lists/cir-pdfs/FR687.pdf

But if you find the opinions of scaremongering groups, bloggers, and sensationalist journalists more credible, then the ingredients would not fit your requirement of “clean, natural, and non-toxic.”

There is a lot of BS and non-science based opinions about cosmetic ingredients out there. None of the legitimate products on the market represent any significant cancer risk for the vast majority of consumers. NONE of the “all natural, non-toxic” products on the market are more safe than standard, synthetic products.  That’s what the science says. But fearmarketing is compelling and effective.  Do you want to believe science or marketers?  It’s really up to you.

I should mention that no one wants to sell a product line that is “dirty, synthetic, and toxic.”  You’ll need a better point of differentiation than that to be successful. 

[OldPerry]

I don’t know all the reactions that would be involved with vitamins blended with sodium hydroxide.  As you can see in the link, Ascorbic Acid (vitamin C) reacts with NaOH to form Sodium Ascorbate which in water just dissociates into Vitamin C so it doesn’t change much.

Vitamin C reaction

The same would happen with other acid vitamins like Retinoic Acid. Non-acid vitamins probably wouldn’t react much during the saponification reaction.

My point is that it doesn’t really matter whether the vitamin gets “destroyed” during the reaction though. Whether it is “destroyed” or remains intact, consumers will not notice any difference in the performance of the soap or the condition of their skin afterwards.

[OldPerry]

Ditch the “fragrance free” idea and add a fragrance to cover the odor.

There are some things that are not possible to do.  Or at least no one has thought of a way to do it. One of the benefits of refining shea butter is that you remove objectionable odors.

[OldPerry]

Here are the only things you can use for antimicrobial agents (for products in the US).

https://www.fda.gov/Drugs/DevelopmentApprovalProcess/DevelopmentResources/Over-the-CounterOTCDrugs/StatusofOTCRulemakings/ucm070821.htm

It’s regulated by the FDA as an OTC.  Here are the other types of products similarly regulated.

FDA Monograph cosmetics

[OldPerry]

Vitamins don’t actually provide any consumer perceptible benefits when delivered from soap (or syndet bars either). 

There will be a certain amount of the initial oil that does not chemically react and that can have an impact on the aesthetics of the soap bar.

[OldPerry]

I’ve seen some of their videos through ULProspector.com and at least what they publish there is good. I don’t know how good the overall course is however. 

[OldPerry]

The industry in the US pretty much phased out of DEAs and went to Cocamidopropyl Betaine. It was a reaction to a cancer scare story about residual nitrosamines. Here’s what the SCCS says about it.

https://ec.europa.eu/health/scientific_committees/consumer_safety/docs/sccs_o_090.pdf

Of course, in a review of ingredient safety, the ingredients are safe to use in cosmetics with limits but contrary to popular belief, the cosmetic industry takes these scare stories serious. If it is easy enough to swap out an ingredient, in general the industry will.  At least the big guys do.

[OldPerry]

Yes, Cocamide DEA is a surfactant. It’s old technology that most people avoid however.

[OldPerry]

@em88 - I agree.  ~12% active surfactant is not an unreasonable amount. Shampoos range 9 - 15% active surfactant

[OldPerry]

1.  To make an oily hair version - Yes you can do as you suggested.

2.  Yes, an everyday shampoo could be more like a dry shampoo. Maybe just increase the surfactant levels slightly for differentiation.

[OldPerry]

@Belassi - What do you find particularly objectionable about SLES?  What is your preferred cleansing surfactant?

I’ve found SLS is better for foaming for sure but SLES is good for reducing the potential irritation of SLS formulas. 

[OldPerry]

Great idea @Microformulation. You won’t be able to sell that formula but it provides you an excellent starting place. 

[OldPerry]

Your question is too vague for anyone to provide a good answer.  What specific materials are you wondering about?

There does not exist a source that will tell you if you mix X cosmetic ingredient with Y cosmetic ingredient you will get Z interaction.

[OldPerry]

Here is a relevant paper on the subject.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5300717/

Essentially, LHA is a derivative of Salicylic Acid and works as a Beta Hydroxy Acid.

In the paper I attached, they claim it helps to exfoliate the skin, has a comedolytic effect and helps reduce the skin erythema of Benzoyl Peroxide.

The description you gave is marketing-speak which doesn’t really say much that is helpful. Phrases like “…greater affinity” and “works more gentle” are not precise enough for them to mean anything. Greater affinity than what? More gentle than what? Some of those claims also border on drug claims (epidermal regeneration) which would be illegal. LHA is not an approved anti-acne drug.

Anyway, from what I gather from the research paper, you want to use LHA as a substitute for Salicylic Acid. 

I did not find any research that said LHA is as effective as Salicylic acid against acne. I also didn’t find any research that said you needed to use it at pH 3 to be effective.

I also don’t think putting oil on an acne prone face is a good idea.

Yes, you could probably make an emulsion using LHA.  In fact, L’Oreal has already done it, as has La Roche Posay

https://www.laroche-posay.us/effaclar-serum-3337872413155.html?cgid=lipo-hydroxy-acid-acne#start=4

[OldPerry]

I wouldn’t say it’s complete nonsense. Hydrolyzed proteins do have a humectant effect as do Panthenol and Hyaluronic acid.

As far as when you add them it’s important to know why ingredients are added at the temperature they’re added at.

All things being equal you would add ingredients at room temperature.  However, formulas are heated for a few reasons:

1.  Heating speeds up the time it takes to incorporate some ingredients
2.  Heating melts ingredients that have a melting point higher than RT
3.  Heating helps make oil phase particles smaller for a more stable emulsion

But some ingredients will chemically change when heated.  Ingredients like formaldehyde donor preservatives will convert to formaldehyde too quickly so they lose effectiveness.  Some of the components of the fragrance will evaporate off so the product won’t smell right.  Some proteins or enzymes will chemically denature if heated too high. Many botanicals will chemically degrade if heated too high.

So, ingredients like fragrances, heat-sensitive preservatives, and active ingredients are all added at cooler temperatures.

To your specific question about hydrolyzed proteins, panthenol, and hyaluronic acid.  I say it doesn’t matter at all. Hydrolyzed proteins are already broken down so heating them won’t have any effect on their performance. Panthenol is not heat sensitive and neither is Hyaluronic acid.

[OldPerry]

Welcome to the forum and thanks for the question.

Unfortunately, your questions are difficult to answer without more information.

For example,

A) Is the oil ratio is too high?  I don’t know. You say people like the product and the product is stable. If the product wasn’t stable or people thought the product was too oily, then YES the ratio is too high. But since people like the product and you say it’s stable then NO the ratio is fine.

B )  Is the glycerine is too high?  If people like your product and it’s stable, then the glycerin is not too high. But if the formula is too expensive or it is unstable or people find it sticky, then it is too high.

C) Do I need to add a stabiliser like cetyl alcohol?  If the product is stable, then you don’t need a stabilizer. 

Now, I suspect that you haven’t done a stability test on the formula and that maybe you don’t love the feel of the formula. If that is the case then you can adjust things.  You could probably use less oil, less glycerin, and add cetyl alcohol to stabilize the formula.  You could use a better preservative system and for the one you have you should add an acid to make sure the pH of the system is less than pH 5.0.  Above that pH your preservative system isn’t very effective.

[OldPerry]

Yes, the same link will work for the replay.

[OldPerry]

The webinar will begin in just under 3 hours.  I was having problems with the email system so if you don’t have the link, here it is.

https://chemistscorner.com/webinars/introduction-to-cosmetic-formulating/?live

[OldPerry]

Thanks!  Welcome to the forum!