[OldPerry]

Thanks for the updates

[OldPerry]

@Gunther - I don’t recall testing a shampoo with >3% salt so I don’t know. 

[OldPerry]

Considering that you rinse your hair with salt free water, I doubt there would be any measurable difference. It seems to be a myth that washing your hair with a product that contains salt is bad for hair.

[OldPerry]

Abstracts on Google Scholar is your best bet.

I like Knowde.com for collecting information about raw materials but they essentially publish things they collect from suppliers.

In truth, there is much less good information about the function of most ingredients than you might imagine. Most of the information that is published is the result of small studies with non-repeated or dubious conclusions. 

[OldPerry]

I just don’t think there is much evidence that using an acid rinse would provide significant benefits over just using water.  The amount of water used in rinsing would overwhelm any residual ammonia left on the hair. And if they use a shampoo after, those will usually have an acidic pH (5.0). So, no I don’t think it would be measurably better to use both. (Perhaps theoretically it might be better).

[OldPerry]

Because you can rinse it off with water.

[OldPerry]

One person? Pretty much any of those ingredients.

But most likely phenoxyethanol, resverstrol, allantoin, rose water, aloe or fragrance. Or maybe your pH is too low.

[OldPerry]

I don’t keep up on all the goings on in the US court system & this isn’t the kind of thing I generally ask brand owners about. So no, I’ve not heard of any. However, this should not give you any reassurance. It could happen all the time or never as far as I know.

I’ve heard from a couple of brand owners (small) who have been sued for their claims about their products being organic. They chose to settle out of court which cost them thousands of dollars.

This is a strategy some lawyers use to make money. I could easily see them adapting the strategy to small, uninsured companies.

I’m curious, how much money are you going to save by making a risky decision like this?

In truth, I bet there are lots of people who sell stuff on Etsy or at Farmers Markets who don’t have insurance. I think that’s a bad idea.

[OldPerry]

1.  No. The FDA does not define or regulate “natural” - https://www.fda.gov/cosmetics/resourcesforyou/industry/ucm388736.htm#7  Whether you can sell them or not depends on the claims you’re making. If the product is a cosmetic then you probably don’t need any special approval. You should follow the suggestions by the FDA though.  If you make any drug claims then you’d have to follow FDA guidelines for producing an OTC drug.

2.  No, it’s not up to the consumer to determine what can harm them. It is up to the manufacturer to be able to prove that their product is safe. It is illegal to sell unsafe cosmetic (or drug) products.

3. I believe Parabens are still the most frequently used preservative in cosmetic products. I think you’d be surprised how small a percentage of the consumer population actually has even heard of the word paraben.

[OldPerry]

“does every chemical in the INCI directory have a corresponding IUPAC name“

No.  That’s because there are a lot of INCI names that refer to chemical blends rather than single ingredients IUPAC focuses on single ingredients.

Although most INCI names probably have a corresponding CAS number.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CAS_Registry_Number

[OldPerry]

Insurance is just the cost of doing business. I recommend that if you are serious about your business then you should get insurance.

But as @MarkBroussard says, it sounds like you’ve made up your mind to not get insurance and are looking to justify that decision. It’s a risk & without it you can’t sell in a lot of possible distribution channels. But if you’re just running your business as a hobby and have little interest in building it up, you might think the money saved is worth it.  I don’t.

[OldPerry]

All names for cosmetic ingredients are assigned in the INCI dictionary. You can’t arbitrarily make up a name.  However, the INCI doesn’t always follow the IUPAC system. There are some different stem names for hydrocarbons & for other ingredients it’s not possible to determine molecular structure from the name. Polyquaternium 7 says virtually nothing about its structure.

[OldPerry]

Two things.

First, I think you may misunderstand percentages in this particular formula.

Water is the primary solvent so the amount in the formula is = 100 - (sum of all other ingredients).  In this case 91%.

If you reduced the water, that would automatically increase the percentages of all the other ingredients.

Panthenol - 5   (% = 5/99 = 5.05%)
HA = 1
Preservative = 3
Water = 90 

Total = 99

So, you can’t reduce the water without also increase the percentages of all the other ingredients.  Similarly, you can’t increase the water without affecting the percentages of the other ingredients.

Second, yes, I’d assume 5% panthenol will feel sticky.  What exactly is this formula supposed to do?

[OldPerry]

@Gunther - EU regs are not my specialty so I don’t know for sure. The way I read it is that the limit of Benzyl Alcohol for preservation purposes is 1% of itself. 

[OldPerry]

You raise some great points. My previous assertions were probably unfair.

I’ve been on the Dr Oz show, but that doesn’t mean that I support the bogus info he peddles.

[OldPerry]

@aperson - Your assertion “I have the best evidence in the world.  I use it.  when I get burned” demonstrates that you and I do not share compatible philosophies about knowledge and truth.  

Science isn’t a perfect system, but it is far superior to any other system created for figuring out what’s true. 

[OldPerry]

@MarkBroussard - No offense meant. I did read most of the article, reviewed a few of the references and don’t disagree with the author’s conclusion “In conclusion, the use of aloe vera gel or its components for the treatment of a variety of conditions and diseases needs further clinical evidence through well-designed studies with defined aloe extracts and matching placebo controls.”

I would add that just because Dr Grudmann has a good academic pedigree doesn’t mean he doesn’t peddle in woo. Sadly, naturopathy (which is a completely fake area of study) has edged it’s way into legitimate academic institutions. The field of medicine and science has suffered because of it. If Dr Grudmann chooses to align himself with charlatans, it makes it difficult for me to take him seriously. 

[OldPerry]

See the CIR report.  https://online.personalcarecouncil.org/ctfa-static/online/lists/cir-pdfs/pr323.pdf  The EU restricts preservative use to 1%. (unless they changed since 1995.  The report also says it is safe for use up to 5% in many applications.

[OldPerry]

@aperson - Thanks for your thorough comments.

There are a couple of points where our opinions diverge.

“countless people, across countless cultures, have aloe vera plants in their kitchens.  this is not, arbitrary.  if you think that this plant, is somehow “fairy dust”, you need to seriously reconsider your position.“

and 

“That for some 2000+ years, botanical extracts, were in fact, the major source of medicines for the world…”

These are both logical fallacies and are not persuasive arguments.

The first is Argument from Popularity.  The fact that lots of people use aloe is not evidence that it actually works. 

The second is Argument from Antiquity. The fact that botanicals have been used for 2000+ years is not evidence that they work.

And anecdotal evidence is also not proof of anything.

 

---

“as to inflammation (or burns) it definitely is bioactive.“

You say this with such certainty without supporting evidence. Of course, maybe I’m misunderstanding what you mean by “bioactive.” 

---

@MarkBroussard provided a link to a journal that purportedly was reviewing the literature for the effects of aloe vera. It’s very thorough, unfortunately, the journal he cites is the official journal of the American Association of Naturopathic Physicians. Nautropathy is not science. It’s voodoo fairy tale stuff and a total scam. They are not a credible source for rigorous scientific information.

What is a credible source for scientific information is Cochrane Review. I reviewed what science had to say about Aloe Vera

1.  Aloe vera for treating acute and chronic wounds - Conclusion: There is currently an absence of high quality clinical trial evidence to support the use of Aloe vera topical agents or Aloe vera dressings as treatments for acute and chronic wounds.

2.  Wound cleansing to help pressure ulcers heal - Conclusion: The authors conclude that there is no good trial evidence to support use of any particular wound cleansing solution or technique for pressure ulcers.  

So as far as what is proven, there isn’t good scientific evidence to support the notion that Aloe Vera is helpful for treating wounds, ulcers or anything else.

I’d be happy to change my mind with scientifically controlled evidence, but I remain unconvinced that using Aloe Vera does little more than provide moisturization and the placebo effect.

This is also true of most every herb and extract too.

Not to mention that there is no way to identify the composition of most herbs & extracts so you have no way of knowing what you’re buying. 

[OldPerry]

@mikethair - I guess that depends on what the diaper rash ointment is claimed to do

[OldPerry]

Sounds like Snake oil to produced by a Quack to me.

[OldPerry]

Interesting, the shampoo formula for Pantene back in the early 2000’s contained Stearyl Alcohol, Cetyl Alcohol and ALES + ALS

[OldPerry]

@APRYL_H - Perhaps you might explain better what you mean by “fall out”

[OldPerry]

You could use salt but go to the other side of the salt curve. There is a point in which salt starts to decrease viscosity.

Fragrance also can reduce viscosity.

Water soluble silicone might reduce the viscosity too.

[OldPerry]

Here, is what it would look like with ingredients that matter.

Water (Aqua), Sodium C14-16 Olefin Sulfonate, Cocamidopropyl Betaine, Sodium Lauroyl Methyl Isethionate, Cocamidopropyl Hydroxysultaine, Glycol Distearate, Hydrogenated Glyceryl Palmate, Hydroxypropyl Guar Hydroxypropyltrimonium Chloride, Polyquaternium-7, Silicone Quaternium-16, Polyquaternium-70, Citric Acid, C30-45 Alkyl Dimethicone, Disodium EDTA, Ethylhexylglycerin, Phenoxyethanol, Sodium Hydroxide, Methylchloroisothiazolinone,Methylisothiazolinone, Fragrance (Parfum), Yellow 5 (CI 19140), Red 33 (CI 17200) 

But talk about overkill!  The preservative system alone is ridiculous.