OldPerry
Forum Replies Created
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Yeah, the ingredient label is has lots of mistakes so you can’t really use it to know what is in the formula. If it straightened the hair like a relaxer, then it’s probably a relaxer.
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When you say it straightened curly hair, what do you mean?
Was it permanently straightened like a relaxer? Was it temporarily straightened like a flat iron?
Most likely what happened is that the hair mask left a coating on the hair fibers which weighed down the hair and hydrogen bonding in the fiber did the rest. If it goes curly after the next wash, that’s probably it.
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@Gunther - Correct, coconut alkanes do not readily evaporate like Cyclomethicone so for applications where evaporation is important, they wouldn’t work as a replacement.
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@Gunther - That depends on what else is in your formula.
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Putting oil in a shampoo essentially dilutes the shampoo and makes it less effective. This type of formula sets up a situation where the shampoo detergent has to not only surround the oil on your hair and scalp, but it also has to surround the oil that’s in the formula.
So, if you have a formula with 10% detergent. When you use it, all 10% of the detergent goes to cleaning your hair. If you put oil in the formula, some of the 10% detergent now goes to emulsifying the oil in the formula and rinses down the drain.
As far as effects, personal experiences are useful for knowing what works for you, but it is not useful for knowing what is actually working. We are just not good at evaluating products unless you do a blinded test and you have no motivated reasoning for making a choice. If you want to use personal experience to decide how something works, you’ll need to do a completely blinded test.
As to your question of oil infused shampoos, in most cases the answer is yes, it’s a claims ingredient used at a very low, insignificant level.
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The problem with internet “research” is that there is a huge amount of misinformation out there. And the motivated student has no way of knowing what’s good information and what is wrong. The first thing you need to do is to unlearn all the things you learned.
Then go read this.
For shampoos, read this.
https://chemistscorner.com/how-shampoos-are-made/Next, forget about “natural” or making something using things in your pantry or out in your yard. Cosmetics are not natural.
Attempts to create cosmetics from natural things is advanced science & not something you can pick up by watching Youtube videos or reading blogs written by hobbiests. Most natural products perform terribly even when created by the most competent formulators in the world.
Follow the advice given by @EVchem above. Find a starting formula, make that first, then you can start experimenting from there.
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Well, that depends on what else is in your formula. See this discussion.
https://chemistscorner.com/cosmeticsciencetalk/discussion/417/stearate-base-emulsion
and this one…
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The “adjustment” ingredient would be water in all cases. So, when you take volume out (removing an ingredient) you add water to compensate. When you put an ingredient in, you reduce water to compensate.
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First make a minimalist sample and get rid of the non-functional ingredients.
So, no Aloe, no wheat protein, no green tea, and probably hold out the essential oils too. Does that remain clear? How is the pH for that blend?
After that you can try it with only adding back the essential oils. That’s probably the problem. If that is the problem, you pretty much will need to either find a solubilizer for the oils or switch to different essential oils. I’d recommend getting a proper fragrance instead of working with EOs but I have no problems with synthetic ingredients.
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The FDA is not working with anyone to come up with Pharm grade cannabis.
If a product is making drug claims then it is not a cosmetic. If a product is a drug then it has to be approved by the FDA for application to the specific thing it’s been approved for.
The FDA does not work with companies to produce products.
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@ngarayeva001 - that’s a good starting assumption.
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This one is an updated one from 2017.
https://www.cir-safety.org/sites/default/files/paraben_web.pdf
It’s pretty dense. On page 66 there is a table that lists the historical use levels of the ingredient in different applications. Dermal contact up to 0.4%, mucous membrane up to 0.3%.
The CIR / FDA does not actually make recommendations though. They look at how the ingredient is being used and then say whether that level is safe. The EU is more prescriptive about allowable levels.
The SCCS opinion from 2011… “Based upon the above, the SCCS considers the use of butylparaben and propylparaben as
preservatives in finished cosmetic products as safe to the consumer, as long as the sum of
their individual concentrations does not exceed 0.19%.”https://ec.europa.eu/health/scientific_committees/consumer_safety/docs/sccs_o_041.pdf
They reiterated their conclusion of safety in 2013.
http://ec.europa.eu/health/scientific_committees/consumer_safety/docs/sccs_o_132.pdfOh and on Allantoin…it was found safe for use up to 2%
https://www.dropbox.com/s/5jkz8vzgvy5keut/allantoin-safety-data.pdf?dl=0 -
Personally, I’m a minimalist formulator so I’d start with only ingredients proven to be effective. (ingredients 1-8 + 13 and maybe 14). Then you could add some of the other ingredients to see if you get any real benefit from them.
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@chemicalmatt - it was a shame to see him do that. He launched the careers of many quacks.
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Companies have used stickers like this so I think you can do it. However, in my opinion you should have the sticker on the actual product not just the outside packaging. The outer packaging could be discarded at some point so you want to make sure people know what’s in the tube.
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Here is the safety report on parabens from the CIR.
The EU limits it to 0.4% in a product according to this short document they produced.
https://ec.europa.eu/health/scientific_committees/docs/citizens_parabens_en.pdf -
I agree. If you want to start a beauty brand, work with a contract manufacturer. You’ll need to focus your time on marketing and sales to be successful.
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@mikethair - DT is not a scientific journal. It is more of a trade journal aimed at dermatologists. However, many of the articles are written by dermatologists so it’s a good source for basic information and summaries of the latest research.
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Sure, you can try any of those. Lanolin, Petrolatum & Mineral Oil are hydrocarbons. So any hydrocarbon is a potential replacement. Whether it works well or not is a different question. To get the answer to that you have to experiment.
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You can find some possible things here.
But finding replacements that work as well as the ingredients you suggested is not a simple task. There is a reason those ingredients have been used in cosmetics for so many years.
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Yes, tretinoin is a drug.
@ngarayeva001 - It’s difficult to convey my meaning but my statement is based more on the ability of consumers to notice things rather than how well, or whether a particular product works. People are just terrible at seeing subtle differences. Sometimes people are not even good at noticing big differences. (see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJG698U2Mvo )
And the most effective, anti-aging product in the world gives subtle differences at best.
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I believe because Vitamin C is something that people generally have a good impression of so it makes it easy for marketers to tell a story that convinces customers that a product works extra special.
The fact that this was tried in the 1970’s and was shown to be bunk wasn’t enough to sink it in the minds of a lot of people. People don’t remember the debunking and after a little while, these ineffective treatments come back. It’s like trying to sink rubber duckies.
It’s also very difficult for consumers to know whether something noticeable is happening on their skin or not. It’s especially true for an ingredient that is supposed to work over time. Who remembers what their skin actually looked like 2 weeks ago?
The reality is that people want to believe things work, marketers want them to believe so tell reinforcing stories, and when consumers have spent a lot of money on a product they naturally would rather see themselves as satisfied customers instead of suckers.
In my opinion, there are no anti aging creams that will provide a real noticeable benefit to consumers beyond what a standard moisturizer will do. Proven lab effects are not consumer noticeable and when consumers say they see a result, it’s just confirmation bias.
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Thanks.
The following technology review paper suggests 4-Butylresorcinol is superior to hexylresorcinol.
Mayuree Kanlayavattanakul & Nattaya Lourith (2018) Skin hyperpigmentation
treatment using herbs: A review of clinical evidences, Journal of Cosmetic and Laser Therapy, 20:2,
123-131, DOI: 10.1080/14764172.2017.1368666 -
@jeromeinthehouse - more effective than hydroquinone? Do you have a link to a study that shows this?
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What are your specific questions?