Perry44
Forum Replies Created
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Yes, where you apply matters. Some areas of the body have a higher density of nerve endings and will experience a greater sensation.
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To add to what others have said, it does seem high. Reading between the lines what it really means is that they don’t really want your business. A small run is not worth it to a contract manufacturer when they know more than 90% of brands will never do a second run. Now they have all this packaging and ingredients that they may (or may not) use again. From their standpoint, it makes business sense to charge a very high amount to customers who want only small runs.
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You’ve asked a lot of questions. Some easy ones.
1. You don’t need a substitute. Just don’t use it. Cationic surfactants generally shouldn’t be in shampoos.
2. Don’t use squalane in a shampoo. Oils do not belong in shampoos
3. For thickenings options, search the forum for sulfate free thickening discussions
As to the other questions you’ll need to be more specific.
What specifically do you want to improve about the formula.
In truth, if you want to make a superior shampoo the first step is to use sulfates. By choosing to make a sulfate free formula, you are choosing to make something that is inferior in performance & more expensive.
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It could be caused by the sodium methyl taurate or trihydroxystearin
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Yeah, I’ve not seen anything that specifically mentions penetration in terms of a definition of cosmetics. Just because something penetrates does not automatically make it a drug or problematic. The FDA does not really weigh in on the general concept of ingredient penetration. Cosmetics are just not allowed to have biological effects.
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Sure I’ll fix it for you. We did a site update in 2021 & we had to make new accounts for everyone.
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Agree with what is written thus far.
3. Ingredients that are water soluble will show little to no benefit in a cleanser as they simply wash away. Oils wash away also. Perhaps a polymer like polyquaternium 10 might help but the best answer is to use a less drying surfactant or reduce the levels of what you are currently using.
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Whatever you put in your product you have to be able to demonstrate safety. So, if you put kefir milk in your product, how would you demonstrate that the product is safe to use?
When you use standard industry accepted ingredients, the suppliers will have conducted safety testing and you can be better assured that the product will be safe to use. If you put ingredients like food or from other industries, then it is up to you to conduct safety testing like HRIPT, stability testing (which should be done anyway), preservative efficacy testing, etc.
So, yes you can put it in the formula. But only if you are going to conduct proper safety testing.
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Despite what you may believe, it’s unlikely the herbal extracts are efficacious.
But even if they are, from a formulation standpoint it is a better strategy to figure out what component in the extract provides the benefit, then add that ingredient and add the extract in the formula at claims levels. That ensures you get the benefit desired, the marketing benefit of talking about the extract AND you can clean up the extract in any, non-coloring method you want.
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I haven’t done it but based on the ingredients, yes you can probably incorporate it into the formula. That’s not to say there will be any benefit to it. The vesicles will likely break open, the retinol might leak out and then degrade while it sits on the shelf. But if you mix it in water it will likely be compatible.
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I have to agree. We don’t know enough about the microbiome to certify something as good or bad. But that just means anyone can make up any standard they like and grant a “certification”
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Thanks everyone!!
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I believe I moved it to formulating.
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I can’t speak for @PhilGeis, but I think the objection would be that your experience would encourage other manufacturers to stop using proven preservatives & start using (normally inadequate) hurdle strategies instead. It also encourages preservative-phobia, validating unreasonable fears of ingredients that have been proven safe. Additionally, it undermines the message that formulas need to be preserved.
While your experience demonstrates that it is possible, for the vast majority of product makers, using a preservative is the safer option.
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Congratulations!
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Better would be HEC for a cationic system. Sorry I didn’t see the cetrimonium chloride in there.
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The lips should be a good approximation but not quite.
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There is a lot wrong with this formula but the main problem is that you are not using the appropriate emulsifier for the oil system you’ve chosen. (I don’t know what that oil is because you just wrote oil. They are not all the same).
You are also adding ions to a charged emulsification system which leads to instability. So, the best thing to do would be to use standard preservatives like Methylparaben which have no problems in emulsions. Using the preservatives you’ve suggested leads to the problems you’re experiencing. Salts and other ions + ionic emulsifiers don’t work well together.
You also should use a suspending agent like Carbomer (or Xanthan gum) to help with stabilization.
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It’s been restored! Sorry for that. We did an update on the course software in 2021.
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Send me a direct message. (just click on my profile) and let me know which email you originally used to register for the class.
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I think @PhilGeis summed it up pretty well, but also assuming a company did sponsor the research & shows that parabens aren’t a problem. Would anyone believe it?
CIR and SCCS are already independent groups who have said these ingredients are safe. That’s not convincing to paraben phobes. I can’t imagine a study sponsored by a company that sells parabens would convince anyone.
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It also matters what the % solids of the extract is. I was once formulating with Aloe Vera Gel. We put it in our formula at 1%. In truth, the raw material was 90% water and only 10% “solids”. So, that 1% in the formula was really 0.1%. Unless your extracts are powders, they are in the formula at considerably less than 1 or 2%.
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What is the 1 or 2% indicative of? Is that a percentage of the formula or is that the percentage of the solids in the extract?
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I like this approach. Make them put some money down upfront. If it moves on to production you can just credit them some amount (depending on how much extra work you did) towards the price of the first production run.
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Yes, that’s their business model.
1. Create a microbiome standard that they think is believable.
2. Solicit businesses to get them to agree to be certified.
3. Get enough companies to pay them to get certified so they can start claiming that it is an “industry standard”
4. Repeat
But no regulators or large companies in the industry recognize them as an industry standard. Anyone can create a standard today that is just as valid as theirs.
This is also the case for something like the COSMOS natural standard. They just made that up. It’s just that they have convinced enough companies to follow the standard that (at least raw material companies) that it means something in the industry.