[Pb610]

I’m no authority on this by any means but most transdermal magnesium products use magnesium chloride. I was reading through “The Magnesium Miracle” and the author’s recommended forms of intake were her own consumable/transdermal product (ReMag, the only listed ingredients being magnesium chloride and reverse osmosis water, lol), then consuming magnesium citrate, then taking Epsom salt baths.

Using magnesium chloride is probably the way to go. I have some but haven’t used it yet due to its oily texture, but it’d be easy to incorporate and probably unnoticeable in trace amounts.

[Pb610]

I’ve been looking into this myself, a shampoo/rinse off application probably wouldn’t be very effective, if at all. Much better to target the scalp directly with a leave-on product containing proven ingredients like minoxidil, finasteride, and maybe retinol, while using a standard sulfate shampoo every few days to properly clean the scalp from residue, dandruff etc. Also dermarolling after shampooing is a good idea.

I posted a formula I’m working on in another thread, using a watered down 5% minoxidil fluid (manufactured by Perrigo, sold under different brand names everywhere but it’s all the exact same formula, 50% propelyne glycol 30% alcohol 20% water). If I could get my hands on raw minoxidil I’d try to swap out the propylene glycol with propanediol. I’ve pretty much written out the use of essential oils and caffeine, though I am curious about magnesium. But minoxidil and finasteride are by far the most obvious candidates.

[Pb610]

I’ve been losing some hair due to stress and have been trying different things. Oils are indeed useless, burying your scalp with oils, creams etc multiple times a day is only going to clog up the skin and prevent it from naturally shedding, leading to really bad dandruff.

Perrigo’s 5% liquid minoxidil (sold under various brands such as Kirkland, equate, Amazon basic care.. they’re all the exact same product) is the most practical thing I’ve found, however it is 50% propelyne glycol which led to similar dandruff issues, and 5% minoxidil is WAY to strong for me, giving me disturbingly strong heart palpitations. That stuff is really meant to be used on bald spots, rather than as a general hair tonic. So I’ve simply been watering it down, currently via the following formula:

50.25ml total

75% water 37.5ml

10% Perrigo 5% minoxidil 5ml

- 5% propylene glycol

- 3% alcohol

- 2% water

- 0.5% minoxidil

15% 91% iso alch 7.5ml

- 13.65% isopropyl alcohol 

- 1.35% water

0.5% 60% lactic acid 0.25ml

- 0.3% lactic acid

- 0.2% water

0.2% menthol 0.1g

0.15% salicylic acid

0.05% piroctone olamine

Adjusted to ph 4.5 with citric acid

(Salicylic acid and piroctone olamine %’s are estimated due to difficulty in measuring the weight of powders, apologies)

I simply dissolve the salicylic acid, lactic acid, menthol and piroctone olamine in the Perrigo minoxidil solution (which conveniently contains propelyne glycol and alcohol) in a hot water bath, wait for it to cool down, then add water and isopropyl alcohol. I’m pretty happy with it. The salicylic acid made the most notable difference in keeping my scalp dry and clean. I’m still working on it and might make a thread later, but for a hair tonic I think a water-based toner makes the most sense. The less residue the better.

I should mention I’m a total novice at this and do not guarantee this formula is safe, dunno if 16% alcohol is sufficient as a preservative.

Also just for reference, these are the most practical products I’ve found re scalp/hair growth: 

https://www.philipkingsley.com/philip-kingsley-scalp-toner.html

https://www.minoxidilmax.com/products

[Pb610]

Dtdang said:

@Pb610
which types of hyaluronic acid do you use? Medium, small or very small molecular?

1 million daltons, so a high molecular weight. A 1% solution in water is really slick and gooey, and dries into a thick, stiff plasticky film under a heat lamp, similar to Elmer’s glue. Whereas glycerin doesn’t dry out at all.

HA seems best used sparingly as a sort of reservoir for the overall product, maybe 0.05% combined with 5% glycerin, something like that. Its just a crazy strong sponge that sucks up any water it touches, so probably not the best delivery method for hydration on its own.

[Pb610]

I’ve been researching different humectants and this was helpful, particularly the difference between propylene glycol and propanediol. Also surprised how unimpressive hyaluronic acid is, I’ve been using it in place of glycerin but maybe I should give it another chance. I have noticed HA tends to dry out much more quickly in a basic water solution, which is sort of what I wanted but without constant rehydration it might not be doing much in the end.

[Pb610]

From what I understand mineral oil is an occlusive, which means it forms a barrier on the skin, rather than soaking into it. So probably only a small fraction of your active ingredients are pressing against the skin, while the rest are encapsulated by or resting on top of the oil. That’s a total guess on my part though, I could easily be wrong.

What I can say is that I made a simple 1:1:1 mix of 70% isopropyl alcohol, menthol, and glycerin, and the glycerin definitely helped provide a sustained cooling effect. It wasn’t immediately noticable, and took about a half hour to really come on strong, and lasts for several hours afterwards. That formulas a bit dry though, I should’ve diluted the isopropyl alcohol down to like 30% alcohol 70% water. But the glycerin really made a difference.

[Pb610]

@Lmc You might try eliminating the panthenol as well, I’ve been working on a water based scalp toner and was using a similar amount of panthenol, and it was leaving a waxy buildup on my scalp that kept skin from shedding properly. Wound up giving me a dandruff problem, once I eliminated it the dandruff problem went away.

You could try mixing the ingredients separately in 50% isopropyl alcohol and then slowly evaporating them under a heat lamp, and see what kind of residue is left behind. For me, niacinamide dried into a dry crystal powder, and panthenol dried into a waxy film. I would be more skeptical of the panthenol.

[Pb610]

I just purchased some menthol and noticed a similar lack of cooling, even after rubbing the raw powder onto my skin with 70% isopropyl alcohol, it was about as intense as using undiluted peppermint oil. I did notice it dries out pretty fast, probably using a solvent/humectant like propylene glycol would help deliver it into the skin better, thus a more direct/sustained cooling. Mineral oil, especially at an 80% concentration, would probably block a lot of your active ingredients from working into the skin, though I’m not certain.

I’m still new to a lot of this, just wanted to mention my experience with menthol.

[Pb610]

I’m also interested in this, specifically how long tightly sealed powders can last. I do keep color-changing desiccant (silica gel) in each container, so I at least have some indication of relative humidity.

[Pb610]

Link to the thread referenced, seems panthenol is a bit of a fluff ingredient: https://chemistscorner.com/cosmeticsciencetalk/discussion/comment/30604

[Pb610]

Camel said:

Thank you for linking that! According to this study, I would prefer the reduction of pore size, spots and wrinkles that niacinamide can supposedly provide, over the moisture from panthenol. I’ve heard panthenol can make products feel sticky, and as I’m already using glycerin, I’m worried the feel would be too unpleasant when combined. Any opinion on that?

When mixing a 50/50 blend of dl-panthenol and water it does leave a sticky (and sweet tasting) transparent film on my skin, so yeah it definitely has a sticky characteristic to it. Though I read elsewhere in this forum that Perry suggested that a 0.44% concentration is what made most sense to him. I’m inclined to agree, it seems potent enough to be used <%1, at which point it isn’t sticky at all. Whether or not it’ll make a discernable difference, I couldn’t tell ya. Niacinamide seems more appropriate if your goal is to tone the skin, vs a basic moisturizer. Though from what I’ve read argireline is much more fun to use, there’s some listings on AliExpress for acetyl-hexapeptide-8, about $20 for 50g, I’ll be trying some of that eventually.

@Graillotion it looks like the forum didn’t translate the link correctly, you can just copy+paste the whole thing manually into your browser. It should lead directly into a pdf download. They tested 1, 3, and 5% concentrations on 24 different young women.

[Pb610]

Also came across this short study comparing niacinamide with d-panthenol, might be of some use: https://sphinxsai.com/2016/ph_vol9_no7/1/(99-104)V9N7PT.pdf

Here’s the summary:

[Pb610]

What exactly are you trying to accomplish @filiz? Are you trying to stimulate hair growth, or just condition the hair itself? Please state clearly the result you’re aiming for.

[Pb610]

Re niacinamide, my own experience with it is that 5-10% in water definitely seems to act as an astringent. After drying it seems to leave my skin more taut and rubbery. At higher concentrations it just dries into a residue on top of the skin so >10% would be pretty pointless. I also bought some dl-panthenol which works much better as a humectant, it soaks into the skin much easier and leaves it more plump. For a leave on cream I’d guess 1-3% niacinamide would be fine, although I’m still very much a novice at all this.

Argireline might be worth looking into as well, if you’re trying to make your skin look tighter. I’ve yet to play with it though.

[Pb610]

Thank you Perry for running this forum! The search function has been a tremendous help for me as a novice formulator. Probably a third of the notes I’ve taken are from this forum alone, vs Reddit and other random sites. Good stuff.