[Paprik]

I believe Allantoin tolerates low ph. You can stick with that.
Quick google search shows pH stability 3 - 8.

Also, I am using Allantoin in my Glycolic acid HA gel peel. So it MUST be correct  

Another one could be Alpha-Bisabolol.
Also shows to be stable between 3 - 11. 

[Paprik]

What natural waxes are you using? We could help more if you share your formula. 

High HLB emulsifier. This will help to wash it off. 

[Paprik]

This looks like instability.
We would need to know what else is in the formula.
Something might be breaking down/reacting and raising the pH. 

[Paprik]

What kind of sunscreens are you talking about? 

Zinc Oxide will kind of self-regulate its pH to around 6.5 - 7.5.

[Paprik]

@Perry nooo you’re not predictable at all.
It’s just I remember someone asked that before in here and I remember your answer. Was very similar. 

I am currently looking into formulating purple shampoo

[Paprik]

Hehe, I was waiting for you @perry I knew exactly you’re going to say that. 

[Paprik]

I really like Sclerotium gum and Carbomer. 

[Paprik]

I didn’t say Kaolin will not be stable in w/o emulsion. 
But you are using low HLB emulsifier in o/w emulsion. 

But for the record, it would require very stable emulsion to keep Kaolin dispersed, plus it is hard to preserve.

Anyhow, I shared my opinion, hope this helped.
Happy formulating. 

[Paprik]

@Fekher 

I am sorry, I really do not want to let you down, but if you do not understand concept of O/W ; W/O and HLB, you should really focus on more basic stuff.

It looks like you are mixing a lot of things without knowing the chemistry and principles. Try to focus on creating O/W emulsions (creams - anionic or nonionic), get knowledge about emulsifiers and their properties, oils/lipids, easy to incorporate actives, stabilizers,  types of emulsions etc…
After that you can move on onto something more complicated. 

I would recommend taking @perry ‘s course. He will teach you everything you need to know to start a proper formulation journey.  

I mean this as a motivation, not to disappoint you. Hope you understand.

[Paprik]

@Fekher

I bet you are aiming to create O/W emulsion, but you are using LOW HLB emulsifier that creates W/O. That obviously destabilizes your formula.
Other non-ionic HIGH HLB emulsifier should be your choice - or something like Cetearyl Alcohol. 

Carbomer (if you’re using 940 or 980) is very sensitive material. Any sign of electrolyte and it’s gone. You are not mixing only non-ionic with cationic, but anionic and cationic. Those have charges, they are ionic. 

Why the guys are asking about the temperature, filling and condensation - If you fill the product warm/hot and close it off some water will evaporate and condensate on the lid [This is basically unpreserved water]. You need to make sure you pack the product at room temperature - preferable the next day. Or do not cover the product - or use some mesh cover or paper cover. 
Or it is packaging problem and you need to check if it seals properly. 

And what preservative are you using? 
As you should be formulating in slightly acidic pH, the carbomer (940;980) is pointless. 

[Paprik]

Short answer - Product is not stable.

Longer answer -
Carbomer - anionic
BTMS - cationic
GMS - non-ionic LOW HLB. 
Hope you see the problem?

What kind of preservative are you using? 

[Paprik]

I would say that 1:20 ratio of SA to PG is good enough. Even 1:10. 

And I would say it is definitely pH dependent - higher pH = salt. pH < 3 = 50% SA bioavailable. 

[Paprik]

YAY! I’m happy for you .. 

Hm, just … how much EDTA have you added? Sorry, it’s just … EDTA is not a pH buffer (or at least I never heard of it in this way). It is a chelating agent. 
TEA would make much more sense to raise pH. 

Anyway, happy it worked, … valuable experience  

[Paprik]

I have already given up trying to get Glycol Distearate to work as a pearliser … I have tried (I believe) everything. And fail every time  

[Paprik]

I’m sorry, did you say you added EDTA to the water to raise the pH? 

[Paprik]

I think I had the same issue with Glycolic Acid and HA serum/peel.
 
You might be right - What is your final pH?
My got too low and HA could not handle it (probably) … once I increased it to around 3 - 3.5 (don’t remember precisely) it got ok. 

Try it. Good luck  

PS. I don’t see any preservative? [Not sure what’s g cham]
Make sure, even you are at very low pH (3), you still include some kind of preservative for any opportunistic organism. 

[Paprik]

That is very sad …  

[Paprik]

Hehe, still confused. You’re saying you’re formulating extra hydrating sunscreen but after that you say “leave my skin matte and not hydrated” ..  

But I guess I know what you mean. 
You need to be careful with what else is in the formula and what type of lipid you’re using. You would need to share your full formula. 
(I’m not familiar with iso-octyl palmitate)

PS. Look at your ZnO dispersion. It is 20%. So if you use it neat on your skin, you could get maximum (if) SPF 20. Now, you won’t be using it neat right? Therefore you cannot even reach SPF 20. 

Formulating sunscreens is not easy. You need to take care about a lot of aspects - stability, homogeneity, coverage on the skin … if you don’t get full coverage it’s almost pointless to use sunscreen as you will still have areas when the sun “hits” the skin. I hope you understand. 

Anyhow, happy formulating!  

[Paprik]

You are really on low side of the input for this preservative. 
Aim for the highest allowed input mate.
You are having basically a perfect environment for microbial growth - water with an amazing food source.

Lower the pH as suggested, add some chelating agent and you could be fine. 

[Paprik]

@Fekher, we simply use PG I guess  
It is compatible. However I do not use PG in surfactants systems as it tends to thin them. It should not be a problem with XG tho (I think). 

You can create mild products using SLES. 
But I get it, there are some milder and more tolerated surfactants/options, especially for baby products.  

[Paprik]

I am sorry if this comes rude to you, but if you don’t know how much Zinc Oxide to add to achieve a specific SPF, I don’t think you are ready to formulate sunscreens. 

But to answer your questions 1 and 2 - 
UV absorbance E max λ @ 1%/1cm is 280 - 370nm @ 1:0.75-1.
Therefore in extremely good base, 1SPF would be approximately 1% w/w. 
Then you can calculate how much of your ZnO dispersion you would required to achieve desired SPF. (And hopefully you already see the problem)

I don’t think I really understand your third question, but if I do, I don’t have answer for you. You would probably need to test it as we don’t know anything about your formula. 

Good luck!  

[Paprik]

drjayseesunish said:

Paprik said:

Any reason why you’re not including anionic surfactant? 
Could you share %?  

We don’t know if this “list of ingredients” would need a conditioning agent.
If it would, you won’t go wrong with, let’s say, Polyquaternium-7, Possibly Guar Hydroxypropyltrimonium chloride and maybe some superfatting agent (Ethoxylated lipid).

@Paprik but once you mentioned anionic and cationic react together to form insoluble content so is it appropriate to use anionic and cationic together in any formulation. 

Hi, but his formula does not contain any cationic surfactant (or at least strong enough to cause any troubles).
Or maybe I don’t understand your comment? What do you think does not add up?

@Abdullah  I believe MPG would be Mono Propylene Glycol.

[Paprik]

Any reason why you’re not including anionic surfactant? 
Could you share %?  

We don’t know if this “list of ingredients” would need a conditioning agent.
If it would, you won’t go wrong with, let’s say, Polyquaternium-7, Possibly Guar Hydroxypropyltrimonium chloride and maybe some superfatting agent (Ethoxylated lipid).

[Paprik]

Xanthan Gum gels the water. 
Imagine it as a fishing net. And micelles (oil trapped in the emulsifiers) as fishes. They will try to swim to each other over time. That is when the fishing net comes and prevents the micelles/fish from moving. = Increased stability. 

Another way to imagine it is something like a facial scrub. Or any product with beads in it. If you put the beads into a water they will either flow on the top or go to the bottom. But if you add gum/polymer (stabiliser) and mix it, it should hold all the beads in place and prevent them from moving. 

Hope this explains it a bit? 

[Paprik]

EDTA is anionic, therefore it does not belong into cationic system. 
[Although I saw many products including it. But from chemical point of view there is not reason]. 
And as Abdullah mentioned, you should be using distilled water. 

If the product gets too viscous after some time, you might have some water/packaging issues. Something like evaporation perhaps.
Have you measured and tested specific gravity during stability testing?

Look also at your formula. No point of using so many cationic surfactants. All do basically the same thing. Stick to one and if you want to have more of them for marketing reasons, add them at 0.1% or less. 

I would think about adding some gum for stability - Guar Hydroxypropropyltrimonium Chloride. 

Try to simplify your formula - go with one lipid, one cationic surfactant and see how it goes. It it will work, you can slowly add ingredients.