[Paprik]

There are few “grades” of BTMS. 25 ; 50 ; 75%. You can choose - I am using 50% and it works just fine  

[Paprik]

Love to see everyone’s answers  

I actually make everything myself (except deo and toothpaste … and sunscreen yet, but looking into it now). 

I use my own Vitamin C, other serums (depending on my skin mood and needs - peptides, Allantoin, CoQ10, lactic acid… ),  facial masks/peels (acid or just hydration), eye serum with “eye” peptides (testing new ones now), moisturiser  … also shampoo, body wash, face wash, conditioner, body scrub, lip balm … 
Plus testing gel to cream cleanser and face oil. 

As I love to play with new ingredients I have sometimes a lot of product to use, so I usually have it in the bathroom and we just use it  

[Paprik]

Thanks @PhilGeis  

[Paprik]

So you have only water, HA and Panthenol in your formula? 
No preservative? 
What is the final pH?

I would suggest add panthenol into the water first and then add HA.
You can even slurry it in some humectant - propanediol works for me so the HA hydrates much faster. 

They should be compatible with each other. 
[But we don’t know brand names, MW of HA, if panthenol is powder or liquid … ] 

[Paprik]

Unfortunately the first pic is hard to read, but if you zoom in you should be able to read it. 
Here’s the text - 
o superior moisturization

o imparts an inviting after-feel, slip

o excellent lubricity, spreadability,
emolliency

o broad formulation compatibility,
long shelf life

o good auxiliary thickening, suspending
power, viscosity enhancement

o water-soluble
o cold-processable

Recommended usage - 5.0–25.0%.

It looks like they use it only in shampoos - and at 0.5%. 

Hope this helps  

[Paprik]

[Paprik]

[Paprik]

Looking at the formula,
* I would probably go a bit higher with XG (you are stabilising big particles).
* I would not use Apricot shell powder on face, unless it is actually for a face product [face grade] (apricot shell powder/flour has usually bit particles with sharp edges) and can be too harsh on the skin. 
* As there’s AHA, you need to make sure the pH is low enough for the acid to be bioavailable. Stearic acid then loses its properties as anionic emulsifier, so no point having it there and you might need to increase non-ionic emulsifier input as the lower pH could break the viscosity. 
* What is the Sodium Bicarbonate there for? It will only neutralise the acid. 

[Paprik]

I found Distearyldimonium Chloride in the Thai Shop  

https://www.myskinrecipes.com/shop/en/non-silicone-anti-static-hair-conditioning/9152-distearyldimonium-chloride.html

They do not have Steareth-20, but they do have others. I am not completely sure how they differ. 

Benzalkonium Chloride - I would just go with any other cationic agent? Not sure how is this one different tho! So my advise can be completely irrelevant  

[Paprik]

Happy new year Perry and everyone!
All the best! Lucky formulating, bug free products and huge sales! <3 

I feel the same, I always learn new things in here.  

[Paprik]

If I understand correctly you are asking why you didn’t get any viscosity with sclerotium gum? 

Check datasheet for Amigum. Recommended input is 0.25 - 2%. You are at the lowest recommended input = not much viscosity will be built. 
Check datasheets from other suppliers - From top of my head Sclerotium gum needs heat or/and high sheet (homogeniser). 

Hope this helps?

[Paprik]

The “abrasiveness” of the product won’t change if you reduce the lipid portion. It depends on the % input and type of the scrubbing particles. 

You can make something like this -
1) Gel - carbomer [or other gelling agent (must be a really good stabiliser)]+ scrub
2) Emulsion - A good rheology modifier/stabiliser + non-ionic emulsifier - 2% - ish lipid (cheap one or 0.01% of a “good” one for marketing)
3) Foaming emulsion - similar to above plus some surfactant (beware it can thin out the emulsion so you might need more emulsifier/fatty alcohol).

You will need to experience and feel all the physical exfoliants yourself - some of them are very mild some of them are more “aggressive”.

You can use combination - I use Bamboo facial scrub at 3% (ish - from top of my head) and 0.5% or so of Apricot shell flour scrub just to give the product some “look”.

Or chemical exfoliation - 
Check your regulatory limits for AHA’s, get the right pH and start with glycolic or lactic acid. Either wash off or leave on product. 

Mainly, if you have really dry skin, I would focus on a good moisturiser and facial oil. You could combine AHA serum with moisturiser and facial oil for perfect trio And exfoliate only 1 - 2 times week. 

[Paprik]

Hi Ghita, 

I would recommend to check market and find what you actually want.
There are many types of exfoliating products. From gels (abrasive particles suspended in gelled phase, AHA/BHA gels) to emulsions (-//-). 

Also many types of physical exfoliant - as you mentioned. Some of them will perform better on face, some of them on body. Depending on how “strong” you want the exfoliation to be. (I would not suggest sugar). 

By removing some of the dead layer you will get some glow. 
AHA (e.g. Lactic acid) could also help with some anti-aging situation (In leave on product) … 
Chemical exfoliants can be also milder than physical ones.

You usually want to keep the lipid portion lower as if it’s a wash off product you want to remove “stuff” from you skin, not to add. 

So yeah, again, check the market, see what is available, think about your product and formulate. 

[Paprik]

For example Neroli hydrosol would be “Citrus aurantium amara (Neroli) Flower Water” ; Manuka hydrosol “Leptospermum Scoparium (Manuka) Water” …. 

[Paprik]

BTMS - Cationic ; Stearic acid - Anionic
You should not mix those two together. Remove Stearic acid, increase Cetearyl alcohol and see. 

Not sure how much you heat your formula and when you add Cyclopentasiloxane but it is volatile, so .. I guess no point to have it in it? 
(Perhaps if something “survives” the heat it might get trapped in the bar and work .. not sure. You will probably have batch to batch changes)

[Paprik]

Pemupur Start

[Paprik]

@Margaret, you are right. It should have a rose-y aroma. 

I must say, when I bought my first one (Euxyl PE 9010) it did smell “rosy/floral” quite a lot.
And I was not happy about it. I stopped using it. .
After some time I decided to give it another try and to my surprise it did smell pretty much like nothing. Maybe a tiny little hint of a floral tones, but nothing I could recognize in a formula. So I guess it might be the batch and/or supplier. 

[Paprik]

I am not sure how much foam are you getting, but for hands it might be enough? You don’t really need super amount of foam for hand wash.

But if you really require more, you need to increase surfactants level - I would aim for increasing amphoteric or non-ionic. CAPB would be probably the best option here …

PQ-7 could be a good addition, .. you can definitely use it as a cationic ingredient as it won’t interfere with your anionic surfactant. 

[Paprik]

Thank you guys.
@MarkBroussard, does it require an antioxidant? 

[Paprik]

Anionic paired with amphoteric and non-ionic. 

[Paprik]

All of them …  
In this order - SCS, SLES, SLS

[Paprik]

It might be syneresis. You are mixing different polarities. 

Plus I think you should use low HLB emulsifiers - you have a looot of lipid there. 
[But to be frank, I don’t have many experiences in sticks, so I might be also wrong]

[Paprik]

Yeah, I understand all the principle behind old cold cream formulas and why would you want to saponify the SA, etc … But I feel like nowadays use of Stearic acid should be thru its charge? [Or even in the past] With some good reliable non-ionic emulsifier? I dunno, but it’s just make sense. 

I was using Stearic acid only as is (no alkali added) and it worked just fine. 

[Paprik]

To explain it a bit further - 
Stearic acid = anionic (negatively charged), Cetrimonium Chloride = cationic (positively charged) - they are going to cling to each other as magnets and won’t work. 

Also please check your local regulatory limits for Cetrimonium Chloride - In EU it’s 2.5% for wash off products. 

[Paprik]

I still kind of feel like Stearic Acid does not need the neutralization to work as an emulsifier. As it is anionically charged, it holds the emulsion with its charge (repulsion)?

Adding electrolytes (NaOH) might change it into TEA stearate, but then it would work on a different principle (?) 

@ketchito @Graillotion  - I was discussing this with you so would like to know your opinion again