[Paprik]

The “abrasiveness” of the product won’t change if you reduce the lipid portion. It depends on the % input and type of the scrubbing particles. 

You can make something like this -
1) Gel - carbomer [or other gelling agent (must be a really good stabiliser)]+ scrub
2) Emulsion - A good rheology modifier/stabiliser + non-ionic emulsifier - 2% - ish lipid (cheap one or 0.01% of a “good” one for marketing)
3) Foaming emulsion - similar to above plus some surfactant (beware it can thin out the emulsion so you might need more emulsifier/fatty alcohol).

You will need to experience and feel all the physical exfoliants yourself - some of them are very mild some of them are more “aggressive”.

You can use combination - I use Bamboo facial scrub at 3% (ish - from top of my head) and 0.5% or so of Apricot shell flour scrub just to give the product some “look”.

Or chemical exfoliation - 
Check your regulatory limits for AHA’s, get the right pH and start with glycolic or lactic acid. Either wash off or leave on product. 

Mainly, if you have really dry skin, I would focus on a good moisturiser and facial oil. You could combine AHA serum with moisturiser and facial oil for perfect trio And exfoliate only 1 - 2 times week. 

[Paprik]

Hi Ghita, 

I would recommend to check market and find what you actually want.
There are many types of exfoliating products. From gels (abrasive particles suspended in gelled phase, AHA/BHA gels) to emulsions (-//-). 

Also many types of physical exfoliant - as you mentioned. Some of them will perform better on face, some of them on body. Depending on how “strong” you want the exfoliation to be. (I would not suggest sugar). 

By removing some of the dead layer you will get some glow. 
AHA (e.g. Lactic acid) could also help with some anti-aging situation (In leave on product) … 
Chemical exfoliants can be also milder than physical ones.

You usually want to keep the lipid portion lower as if it’s a wash off product you want to remove “stuff” from you skin, not to add. 

So yeah, again, check the market, see what is available, think about your product and formulate. 

[Paprik]

For example Neroli hydrosol would be “Citrus aurantium amara (Neroli) Flower Water” ; Manuka hydrosol “Leptospermum Scoparium (Manuka) Water” …. 

[Paprik]

BTMS - Cationic ; Stearic acid - Anionic
You should not mix those two together. Remove Stearic acid, increase Cetearyl alcohol and see. 

Not sure how much you heat your formula and when you add Cyclopentasiloxane but it is volatile, so .. I guess no point to have it in it? 
(Perhaps if something “survives” the heat it might get trapped in the bar and work .. not sure. You will probably have batch to batch changes)

[Paprik]

Pemupur Start

[Paprik]

@Margaret, you are right. It should have a rose-y aroma. 

I must say, when I bought my first one (Euxyl PE 9010) it did smell “rosy/floral” quite a lot.
And I was not happy about it. I stopped using it. .
After some time I decided to give it another try and to my surprise it did smell pretty much like nothing. Maybe a tiny little hint of a floral tones, but nothing I could recognize in a formula. So I guess it might be the batch and/or supplier. 

[Paprik]

I am not sure how much foam are you getting, but for hands it might be enough? You don’t really need super amount of foam for hand wash.

But if you really require more, you need to increase surfactants level - I would aim for increasing amphoteric or non-ionic. CAPB would be probably the best option here …

PQ-7 could be a good addition, .. you can definitely use it as a cationic ingredient as it won’t interfere with your anionic surfactant. 

[Paprik]

Thank you guys.
@MarkBroussard, does it require an antioxidant? 

[Paprik]

Anionic paired with amphoteric and non-ionic. 

[Paprik]

All of them …  
In this order - SCS, SLES, SLS

[Paprik]

It might be syneresis. You are mixing different polarities. 

Plus I think you should use low HLB emulsifiers - you have a looot of lipid there. 
[But to be frank, I don’t have many experiences in sticks, so I might be also wrong]

[Paprik]

Yeah, I understand all the principle behind old cold cream formulas and why would you want to saponify the SA, etc … But I feel like nowadays use of Stearic acid should be thru its charge? [Or even in the past] With some good reliable non-ionic emulsifier? I dunno, but it’s just make sense. 

I was using Stearic acid only as is (no alkali added) and it worked just fine. 

[Paprik]

To explain it a bit further - 
Stearic acid = anionic (negatively charged), Cetrimonium Chloride = cationic (positively charged) - they are going to cling to each other as magnets and won’t work. 

Also please check your local regulatory limits for Cetrimonium Chloride - In EU it’s 2.5% for wash off products. 

[Paprik]

I still kind of feel like Stearic Acid does not need the neutralization to work as an emulsifier. As it is anionically charged, it holds the emulsion with its charge (repulsion)?

Adding electrolytes (NaOH) might change it into TEA stearate, but then it would work on a different principle (?) 

@ketchito @Graillotion  - I was discussing this with you so would like to know your opinion again  

[Paprik]

Try knock-off - put the fragrance into each ingredient (silicones, IPM ..) and see if it gets cloudy. 

Also, standard silicones are non-polar. I don’t think it will blend well with IPM (it is medium polarity) … as this will be purely silicone based product, I don’t think you need tocopherol. [Some modified silicones can have some polarity to them, so also careful there.]

[Paprik]

pH around 7 is not high. It’s around neutral. Your skin can absolutely handle it. Plus, once you dilute the product with water, the pH becomes almost irrelevant. What is stripping the skin is the insane amount of surfactant active matter you used. 

Sodium Cocoyl Isethionate creates a nice, dense creamy foam. Perfect for face. You do not need crazy bubbles for such a small area, especially around eyes. 

You can include something like superfatting agent to increase the mildness of the product. 

[Paprik]

Oh, sorry @Graillotion for this a bit off topic comment, but I just learned that Myristyl Myristate (which was recommended by many of you and I got it and use it) have rating of 5!! Shocking! Well, I do use it only at 1%, so should not be a problem, but still - Shocking  

[Paprik]

Yeah, I will do that .. I did change my weights a bit and added some other stuff so once they confirm price, I will ask how does it work with them. 

[Paprik]

So … I placed a quotation request for 1.52 kg … 
My total cost for products is 2995 THB (134 NZD)
Freight cost is 2300 THB (103 NZD)
Plus 4% Credit card transaction and it makes 5506.80 THB (250-ish NZD). 

I must say it is a bit expensive now. But again, it’s 1.5kg, from Thailand, good and quick freight … I will probably go ahead (actually will add some of the polymethylsilsesquioxane  )

[Paprik]

I don’t think you need to slurry the HEC. Just add to water, disperse properly, raise pH, let hydrate and do whatever you need after  

[Paprik]

Praises to them! I am preparing quite a decent order and am curious about the shipping cost. Will share after  

Also looking at the polymethylsilsesquioxane now! Thanks .. more money to spend  

[Paprik]

If I were youe dog I would hate you spraying cider in my mouth. Dogs have much better senses than human. Please consider it. 

But to answer you question, cider is water soluble, so is honey. 
You would need to use a solubiliser to be able to incorporate small amount of lipid into water phase. Not sure if it’s good for a dog. 
Plus, you will need a good preservative as this will be a very nutrient rich formula for microbes - again, not great for a dog, do you think? 

Please, reconsider this whole product. They sell products that you add to your dog’s water bowl and this prevents tartar build up, smell, etc … Easy as …

[Paprik]

I think that 35% ASM is way too much for face. It is a small area and you don’t need a looooots of foam. [You don’t need excess of foam for a product to clean as a matter of fact, but we do that for customers’ perspective] 

I would go maximum 8-10% - e.g. 5% SCI, 3% Cocamidopropyl Betaine, 2% Decyl Glucoside or some superfatting agent. 

[Paprik]

ketchito said:

I believe Glyceryl stearate is a non ionic molecule. It sounds like a salt, but it’s in fact an ester 

But he wrote Glyceryl Stearate SE. Which should make it anionic? 

[Paprik]

MySkinRecipes 4ever!