[ngarayeva001]

Well, there is 500 dalton rule for skincare. The 500 Dalton Rule states that molecules greater than 500 Daltons cannot penetrate stratum corneum (which is a simplification). You need to find out this value for hair. Then write an email to the supplier and ask to confirm the size of those proteins in daltons. But keep in mind, it might be a useless exercise since proteins are large molecules.

[ngarayeva001]

I noticed that many times. Reduced jojoba oil but up shea butter and the product became less greasy. I can’t figure out the reason, but often use this trick.

[ngarayeva001]

I posted a YouTube link above. It is possible without homogenizer. This material is  loved by DIY community (cuz ‘natural’). They do it with a kitchen mixer (not a stick blender but the one you use for making cakes) but it takes a lot of effort. I managed making a gel using not particularly powerful overhead stirrer.

[ngarayeva001]

B	Squalane	2.00%	12	12%	1.42
B	Caprylic/Capric Triglycerides	1.00%	11	6%	0.65
B	Butyrospermum parkii butter	3.00%	8	18%	1.42
B	Simmondsia Chinesis Seed Oil	2.00%	6	12%	0.71
B	Dimethicone fluid	3.00%	5	18%	0.89
B	Cetyl Alcohol	3.00%	15.5	18%	2.76
B	Cetearyl Alcohol	2.00%	15.5	12%	1.84
B	Tocopheryl Acetate	0.75%	6	4%	0.27
B	Tocopherol	0.10%	6	1%	0.04
			16.85%		10.01
B	Sorbitan Oleate	1.00%	4.5	20%	0.9
B	Glyceryl Stearate/PEG-100 Stearate	4.00%	11.2	80%	8.96
					9.86

10.01 in this example is HLB of the oil phase, and 9.86 is HLB of emulsifiers.

[ngarayeva001]

Why do you want protein to penetrate the hair strand? The hair above the surface of the skin is dead.

[ngarayeva001]

It looks like the one you add to water to me. In this case amount of glycerin is justified.

[ngarayeva001]

@maria,  I checked the LOI of Petrowhat? and it looks like it’s not sucrgel AOF, because I don’t see any almond oil. Maybe its some other variety of sucragel.
Regarding the Bath Oil formula you listed above, is it a cleansing product or you just add it to water?

[ngarayeva001]

@ninjahamlet any plastic gloves are ok. You don’t want undiluted surfactants on your hands. Ok, recommend % of all surfactants in your product: 10% face product, 10% baby products, 15-25% shampoos, showegels, handwashes, around 30% bubble bath. Open INCI decoder website and start researching products that you like and analyze them. 

[ngarayeva001]

I listed two very good emulsifiers above. Beeswax isn’t an emulsifier. If you want to make it cheap to show students how to make a cream get emulsifiying wax with cetearyl alcohol and PEG-20 stearate for 6 pounds from Amazon. 

[ngarayeva001]

ninjahamlet said:

Do the ‘oil infused’ shampoos in the store have such an insignificant amount of oil that it doesn’t really make much difference in the shampoo but they can still write it on the label?

You will know the answer after you analyze LOIs of 15 commercial products.

[ngarayeva001]

Don’t forget preservative and tocopherol. Natthinking has both in section preservatives. And glycerin. 

[ngarayeva001]

This one https://www.naturallythinking.com/glyceryl-stearate-peg-100.html plus 

https://www.naturallythinking.com/glyceryl-oleate.html

You need both, since you are using different oils and need a high and a low HLB emulsifier. If you don’t know how to calculate HLB google it before writing your formula.

You also need something to thicken your lotion. Options are: cetyl alcohol, cetearyl alcohol, stearic acid (but it gives draggy feel, I personally don’t like it), and xangtham gum. Get glyceryl oleate and xangtham from naturallythinking, everything else is cheaper on Amazon.uk (you are ordering from naturallythinking, so I am assuming you are in the uk)

[ngarayeva001]

@mehrzadkia, not surprised. The same supplier lists tocopherol as preservative. As Perry said it can be an emulsifier in a product like shaving cream where you neutralise it. I assume you are looking for an emulsifier for a lotion? Please let me know what you are making. I know this website. It’s naturallythinking. They offer good quality ingredients but in some cases contraversial information. I couldn’t get actual surfactant concentration of SLES they sell for two weeks. I order a lot from them and know what they have, so can advice what fits your product.

[ngarayeva001]

I don’t have experience with these two products together but can suggest a couple of thoughts.
CAPB is amphoteric. It is anionic at pH above 7 and cationic below 7 (please check if there are decimals, maybe it’s 6.something). So potentially you can resolve your problem by decreasing pH so that you have two cationic emulsifiers in your formula. Another point, CAPB is a surfactants. So is BTMS. Maybe you can mix surfactants separately and then add water?

[ngarayeva001]

@ninjahamlet

This is a detailed guidance on how to formulate shampoo without a degree in chemistry.

1) Analise LOIs of minimum 15 commercial products (the more is better)
2) Find ingredients that are showing in most of them - write notes
3) Research every single of them and understand what they do -write notes
4) Go to https://www.personalcaremagazine.com/formulations, find all shampoo formulas that they have. Analize formulas - make notes.
5) Go to ulprospector, or a supplier that you use and understand the recommended use of every single ingredient. 
6) Compare 5) with your notes.
7) Read as many articles about what is pH as you can find. Don’t stop until you find an article that explains that  pH scale is logarithmic. Understand what it means.
Get yourself a pH meter. Not strips. 
9) Google an article about zein test.
10) Figure out what size of micells have to do with how gentle surfactant is. Make notes.
11) Read about Anionic, Cationic, Non-Ionic and Amphoteric surfactants. Don’t stop researching until you know when Amphoteric surfactant becomes cationic.
12) Analise all your notes and write a formula with percentages, total of which is equal 100%.
13) Post this formula here and ask for an advice.
14) Analise responses. Make notes.
15) Update your formula.
16) Get youself a pack of disposable plastic gloves.

After these steps you will have what is called a basic understanding. Go and make your product. You will probably mess it up (because this is how it works). Come back with a description of a problem and a formula. And we will help.

[ngarayeva001]

@em88 I have an emulsifier based on sodium polyacrylate (ViscOptima). I absolutely like it, and it can thicken pretty much anything (except for Sodium PCA). However, I prefer carbomers for this product because it provides much lighter feel. Thank you for the info about squalane. I bought it long ago, and that was not something I was questioning. I will just replace it to mineral oil.

[ngarayeva001]

@Glad2be, I am always happy to share my (limited so far) knowledge with others. Can you please give me the link to that cleansing gel? I couldn’t find it on the website.

[ngarayeva001]

@Jdawgswife76, I also had that perception that oils must be good for hair. But then I figured out that that it’s cationic emulsifiers and cationic conditioners (cetrimonium chloride) that give detangling and slip. You can make hair mask with oils but that type of product should be left on your hair for 30+ minutes, or it won’t work. Take your favorite commercial product and analyze the LOI. Regarding cyclomethicone, I like mixing it with dimethicone. It’s not a must but a nice addition. Your product will work well even without cyclomethicone.

[ngarayeva001]

Polymer emulsifiers and rheology modifiers give that expensive luxurious feel to products. The absolute majority of high-end products (I am taking about chanel/dior/la mer/la prairie - the stuff that is sold in the Bloomingdales and Saks) as well as many good products sold in drugstores have at least one of them. Aloe is high in electrolytes that the most of polymer emulsifiers do not tolerate well.
I love polymer emulsifiers and only have one face product made with traditional emulsifiers only (I formulated it for my friend and called ‘Hipster Moisturizer’ as a joke). You can find them on lotioncrafter or makingcosmetics. But be careful, once you try them you won’t be able to go back ?

[ngarayeva001]

@Christopher, it’s an interesting material to try. I don’t know if it makes sense to use it as a traditional emulsifier but try it for oily cleansing gel. Choose an oil that is less prone to rancidity, make sure you add antioxidants and preservatives (it doesn’t matter that it’s anhydrous, it would be exposed to water). Regarding the process, check out this video by The Institute of personal care science on YouTube https://youtu.be/5gEi1892mOI

[ngarayeva001]

No. Stearic acid is not an emulsifier.

[ngarayeva001]

You can also add 1-1.5% of Cetrimonium Cloride (conditioning ingredient) or Polyquartenium 10 (also conditioning, but I don’t have experience with this one, so can’t advise on %).

[ngarayeva001]

Sorry, it looks like a lotion to me. Ok, if it’s a hair conditioner, you can keep EOs, 5% is a good amount of dimethicone (you can add cyclomethicone next time when you have it), you still should reduce amount of vitamin e. Now the crucial part (and why I thought it’s a lotion) - you need a good amount of cetearyl alcohol. I would say 5%. You can keep Cetyl as you have it at 3%, and the most important, don’t use more than 0.5% of oils. Grab any commercial product in a store and you will notice that oils are listed somewhere near preservative (means very low % is used). Oils in hair conditioner are for claims only. Be careful when you melt your oilphase, heat it slowly.

[ngarayeva001]

@carplgrower, 1) I agree with your point, but I don’t think polysorbate 80 is sufficient. Again it’s trial and error. Experiment and see if it works. Emulsions are not stable by nature and having two emulsifiers can contribute to stability. 
2) Tetrasodium and Disodium EDTA are chelating agents. They bind metal ions in your water. They are used as a part of preservation system.
3) Yes, you can. But Cetyl and Cetearyl Alcohol add stability to the emulsion and act as co-emulsifiers. So, you can do it but you need to make sure you have a very good emulsifier.

[ngarayeva001]

@Jdawgswife76
1) 8% of glycerin is extremely high. The product will be very sticky. Reduce to 3% max, and if you want more humectants, get butylene glycol and 1,3 Propanediol. The last one is reducing tackyness of glycerin.
2) Aloe.. use it until you discover polymer emulsifiers, once you do, you going to hate it
3) Panthenol is a “claim” ingredient. Doesn’t do anything. You can keep 1% or can reduce to 0.1% and save money on the material.
4) Coconut oil isn’t good for face. It is too heavy. Consider substituting it to something else (babassu maybe).
5) There are two types of Vitamin E: Tocopherol - antioxidant that is used to prevent oils in your lotion from getting rancid. Do not use more than 0.2% or it will act as pro-oxidant! Tocopheryl Acetate - an active ingredient for skin benefits. You can use up to 5% if you wish, but usually it is used around 1%.
5) Dimethicone looks a bit high to me. Nothing is wrong with it, but try to reduce to 2-3% and see if the product is occlusive enough.
6) The recommended usage rate of Germall plus is from 0.1 to 0.5%. You have 0.05%, maybe it’s a typo?
7) EOs… I personally avoid them in face products. They all are either phototoxic, or cytotoxic or both. If you want to use it, try not to go over 0.2%