[ngarayeva001]

Salt has no effect on Sarcosinate. CAPB is there for mildness.

[ngarayeva001]

(14*.08)+(10*.35)+(10*.30) = 18 (approx)
I assumed that your CAPB is 35% and Disodium Cocoyl Glutamate is 30%. A mild shampoo is recommended to stay within 15%. So you might want to recalculate.

Main natural thickeners are salt and gums. There are plenty of options but they wouldn’t be PEG free.

[ngarayeva001]

TCA and Glycolic in the same routine sounds a bit drying.

[ngarayeva001]

Aloe juice: 10 - too much
Disodium Cocoyl Glutamate: 10
SCI: 14 - powder? what’s your total active surfactant?
CoCo Beatine: 10 - is it actually coco betaine or CAPB?
Glycerin: 3
Catonic guar:.5
GSB: 1.5 (perservative)

caprylylcapryl glucoside: 3 Glyceryl Stearate SE: 3 - what is the purpose of it in a shampoo?

SCI responds to salt a little. Have you tried?

[ngarayeva001]

Unfortunately it’s not as easy as being below 500 daltons. There are many other factors. Having said that I am in a doubt you can see any result in 4 days. Skin renewal cycle takes 28 days in average. Apha arbutin doesn’t make skin lighter it prevents it from getting darker after sun exposure. Not sure how ethyl ascorbic acid works, but LAA also takes some time to demonstrate any visible result. The only skincare that gives visible result overnight are AHA peels. And even that isn’t measurable.

[ngarayeva001]

What tools did you use to take the
 measurements?

[ngarayeva001]

Exclude olefin sulfonate at all. You will need more crothix to thicken it though.

[ngarayeva001]

Yes, PG-10 is in powdered form, PG-7 is liquid with low active %. Amodimethicone is an emulsion: Amodimethicone, trideceth-12, cetrimonium chloride. I have chemically treated and  damaged hair, so for me this amount of conditioner makes sense. Probably most of people need less.

[ngarayeva001]

I also thought they must be just more occlusive and that’s the ‘magic’. Thank you!

[ngarayeva001]

@Pharma, apologies a bit offtopic, I read (not very reliable source) that water in oil emulsions are better at delivering actives. I wonder if there’s any scientific backing for such a claim.. Maybe this claim comes from the fact that most topical drugs come in form of ointments?

[ngarayeva001]

I don’t think you want emulsifier to penetrate your skin. Read about the 500 dalton rule and research propylene glycol and dimethyl isosorbide. Both are penetration enhancers. Having said that, I would be very careful, as the barrier function of our skin exists for a reason.

[ngarayeva001]

BTW why do you have both Tetrasodium and Disodium EDTA? The first one is better for products where transparency is important.

[ngarayeva001]

I think it’s either PEG-40 HEC/Perfume or PEG-7 Glyceryl Cocoate. I had similar issues with these two. Try to knock them out and see whether it works.
Also, is phenoxyethanol your only preservative? 

[ngarayeva001]

Hydrosols are bug food. Phenoxyethanol alone will not be sufficient to preserve this formula. It useless against mold and thus isn’t concidered a broad spectrum preservative. You need to reconsider the preservative you want to use.

Assuming this is tocopherol not tocopheryl acetate, you have too much of Vitamin e. 

The amount of poly 80 is not enough to emulsify 3% of oils.

You have too much of tea tree oil. It is a known skin irritant.

Are you using HA as a rheology modifier or its LMW?

[ngarayeva001]

@Pharma, now I will be imagining drunk cells all day long :smiley:
I want to thank you for your comments. It’s great to have someone who knows the science behind processes and is willing to share this knowledge with others (your previos comments on effect of the pH on alpha arbutin was very useful).

[ngarayeva001]

@sven you can exclude Olefin Sulfonate at all and the formula will be chrystal clear (it’s still clear but olefin sulfonate is yellow). But then it would be very difficult to thicken. 
I love Sarcosinate. It’s very gentle and easy to work with. Zein protein and HET CAM tests show it’s somewhere in the middle (moderately irritating) but when you mix it with CAPB it becomes very mild.

[ngarayeva001]

This is very interesting analysis, @Will. I guess making hair more flexible means more humectants as well (PG?). Good luck with your business.

I try to stick to the scientific information however I noticed that sometimes certain ingredients work although there is not much scientific back up. I am sure professionals would say it’s placebo or anecdotal evidence.

I have extremely thick wavy (type 2C or maybe 3A I think) hair. I gave up and did keratin straightening, which basically means severely damaging hair. I still use flat iron (but it takes me 15 minutes instead of an hour) and the thing that works for me is a simple mix of Dimethicone and Cyclomethicone (20:80). I would be happy to add something to decrease heat damage but I can’t access the materials mentioned by Belinda.

[ngarayeva001]

Another approach:

INCI	%
Aqua	40.3%
Tetrasodium EDTA	0.2%
Glycerin	1.0%
Cocamidopropyl Betaine	20.0%
Sodium C14-16 Olefin Sulfonate	30.0%
Cocamide DEA	2.5%
Polyquat 10	1.0%
Polyquat 7	0.5%
Amodimethicone (emulsion)	2.0%
Germaben II	1.0%
PEG-7 Glyceryl cocoate	1.5%
Citric Acid NaCl	QS

Here the viscosity is achieved with NaCl (not much), CDEA and Polyquat 10 without any crothix. It is deeply conditioning formula for everyday use (active surfactant about 15%). I used 2.5% of CDEA here but I wouldn’t say it’s sticky either.

[ngarayeva001]

This is a shampoo formula. Total active surfactants 15%

INCI	%
Aqua	48.5%
Tetrasodium EDTA	0.2%
Glycerin	1.0%
Cocamidopropyl Betaine	20.0%
Sodium C14-16 Olefin Sulfonate	5.0%
Sodium Lauroyl Sarcosinate	17.0%
Cocamide DEA	2.0%
Polyquat 7	0.5%
Polyquat 10	0.8%
Amodimethicone	1.0%
PEG-7 Glyceryl cocoate	1.5%
Germaben II	1.0%
Crothix Liquid	1.5%

It’s very mild conditioning formula. As you can see it’s sulfate free and the surfactants used here are rather difficult to thicken. I use both CDEA and Polyquat 10 to add to viscosity. Crothix alone isn’t sufficient here.
By the way it will be clear if you heat the CDEA with a little bit of water before adding to other surfactants. Other than that it’s cold process.

[ngarayeva001]

I would like to clarify something about oil cleansing if I may. Double cleansing makes sense when you deal with makeup. Especially with water-resistant mascara. The first step is oil with a surfactant in it. Non foaming formula where surfactant is only used to let oil rinse off easily. The second step is gentle foaming cleanser (without oil) to finish the cleansing. But you don’t need any oil in shampoo or shower gel. 

[ngarayeva001]

@Gunther I use 2% in a shampoo. Haven’t noticed any stickiness. Maybe it’s compensated by other ingredients..

[ngarayeva001]

It’s an ingredient called PEG-7 Glyceryl Cocoate not two separate ingredients.
Ceteareth 30 can probably be replaced by Ceteareth 25 in a hair product.

[ngarayeva001]

Adding oils to a conventional surfactant product does nothing but suppress  cleansing abilities. As a result it might be less irritating but you will achieve the same result by adding less surfactant.

Oil cleansing assumes use of specific emulsifiers such as PEG-20 Glyceryl Triisostearate. It doesn’t foam and doesn’t work as a traditional surfactant base product.

There are plenty of ways of formulating a mild cleanser but adding oils is not one of them.

[ngarayeva001]

Topical products are not effective for removing dark spots. First of all spots are different and cause by different factors. Freckles, melasma, cafe au lait spots are not the same.
 
LAA, Alpha Arbutine, Niacinamide+NAG, licorice root etc. might even out overall tone of your skin. They can’t remove dark spots or they would be drugs not cosmetics.

[ngarayeva001]

It’s very surprising that it doesn’t soap because it’s actually a soap. I compared  it with a lotion made with glyceryl stearate/PEG100 stearate and thickened with Cetearyl Alcohol. The TEA stearate based soaps less. Try lush’s lotions to see the texture. It’s alkaline however.